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pat martino approach

 
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joel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:43 am    Post subject: pat martino approach Reply with quote

can anyone give me a link or explain pats verticle and horizontal approaches of the guitar, usin dim and aug chords
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:01 am    Post subject: Martino "ways" Reply with quote

I am not a big Pat Martino fan, though I know alot of his music.....
I studdied him a few years ago with that goal to be able to make lines with no endings..... Very Happy

What I found out about him after several analysis, was that he actually thinks the same no matter what chord he is deeling with
He simply thinks everything in minor,and uses this "mode substitute" througout.......
Ex,minor is minor, Major 7th chord he plays minor ideas from the 6th or 2nd degrees,stadic dominant:minor ideas from the 5th. altered dominant,minor ideas from the b2nd. diminished,minor ideas from the m7th or the b3rd.....etc...
Hope it can help you....Bjorn.....
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Travis
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:17 pm    Post subject: Pat Martino Concepts Reply with quote

check out the www.justjazz.com forum, under Pat Martino Techniques, there is a really good general explanation, and application of the "diminished concept." Also check out "the Nature of the Guitar" at www.patmartino.com. A lot of people have said that they don't get it (his writing), and I have read people who complain that it is overdone and somewhat esoteric (and it is), but I like that, and after getting a basic idea of the concept, I could go through each page and decipher what he is saying. I think that it is a really interesting approach, and one that seems to be simple and structured building towards complexity from a simple fact inherent in the nature of the configuration and tuning of the guitar. It's non-traditional, though he seems to say that the pianistic conception of music is still a general prerequisite, lots of jazz guys (seem to) get gut pains about things like that, but check it out and make up your mind, and drop me a line, if you want to discuss it, I am just starting to fool around with it as well...

Combined with the PWYH course, it is a good step towards encouraging a more intuitive understanding of the guitar, but it is not a shortcut! It is a tool that facilitates the application of harmonic and melodic theory (still very important) to the GUITAR.
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Travis



Joined: 12 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I registered, so feel free to e-mail me a well...
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Christian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Very useful ideas Reply with quote

Pat Martino also sees all seventh chords as being derived from diminished seventh chord shapes and all triads as being derived from augmented triad shapes. As the dim and aug shapes repeat regularly up and down the fret board, you can use them as the basis of position playing.

This can also be helpful for playing through conventionally 'difficult' chord sequences.

With the augmented triad shape - try X X 5 4 4 X from bottom E up. The chord repeats when you transpose it to every 4 frets. So - we have the same augmented triad at the 1st (open position), 5th, 10th, 13th and so on

In 4th we lower each tone in turn starting from the D string and moving to the G and B, you get three major triad shapes - B, Eb and G. In open it's G B Eb ....

So

Open G, B Eb
4th fret B, Eb, G
10th fret Eb, G, B
11th fret G, B, Eb

By adding major sevenths, ninths and other intervals to taste you now have a basic set of position with which to takle giant steps. The beauty of it is that you can swap between arpeggios really quickly without any position shifts or thinking.

Also works with the sevenths over minor seventh relations. Songs like Central Park West...

Do this for all the augmented triad shapes, and go ye forth and impress your freinds with your ability to burn Giant Steps effortlessly Smile
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alfonso
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm glad a few of you understand his approach, he explains how he plays on one of his videos I bought, he explains it very clearly, it's a highlights video and I think that's the name of it "Highlights". I can't find anywhere that explains in detail his graphs etc., actually he explains them on his website but, Pat is extremely intelligent and it always shows, goes way over my head. Anyways, I just went to see Pat at Yoshi's in Oakland March 6, it was a tribute to Wes Montgomery. It was totally phenominal, it was a matinee and afterwards he met with his fans and I was totally floored, he let my wife take a picture of us, yes me and Pat Martino and he put his arm around me like we were old friends. He's truly a great guitarist and a really nice guy... Oh, and he was playing his Signature guitar made by Gibson, truly a bad-ass looking guitar... Check out Pat if you ever get the chance, you will be totally blown away...

no passion, no life...
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Christian
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pat Martino - whadda guy.

He is *really* clever. His ideas smack of genius to me.
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Ed_Sanchez
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 2:07 pm    Post subject: Pat Martino concepts Reply with quote

hi
i am very glad that u are interested in pat. for me, he is a giant, a genius, a player that really touches me. you know, like them called him in the 70's, the "velvet hammer". anyway, everyone who has written in this post is right, he uses a DIMINISHED concept to look at chords and positions in the guitar.
my recomendation to u is that u buy AND STUDY the great video "PAT MARTINO -CREATIVE FORCE, TWO VIDEO SET" there is everything about his diminished concept, and transpose the lines, wich are great for technique also.
in the other hand, we got the MINORISING or CONVERTING TO MINOR concept, wich is also a Martino trademark. he uses the minor scale (dorian mostly) and uses under a great deal of chords. just try to get his book "PAT MARTINO - LINEAR EXPRESIONS". i have found a site called
www.chordmelody.com, wich seems to have it. JUST GET IT, and follow all of Pat's recomendations there. that's the clearest of all the Martino books out there, belive me.
do his lines, transpose them, listen to his music, follow his advise and last, but not least, remember what he says
THE GUITAR IS JUST AN APPARATUS
so dont let that apparatus get in the way of u and your music
bye
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Paul Brown
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a simple explanation of Martino's diminished and augmented concepts in an edition of 'Guitar Player' that came out a year or two ago.
Like many inventive approaches, it's actually alarmingly simple once you get the hang of it.

As for 'Linear Expressions', the basic concept of that book is to aid visualisation by formulating lines around inversions of a minor seventh chord. He begins with the root form based on the sixth string (G, X, F, Bb, D) then moves up to the first inversion (Bb, X, G, D, F) etc. until he has mapped the entire length of the fretboard. The lines Pat creates can then be seen as 'radiating' out from the underlying chord forms.
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tobzlarone
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Martino "ways" Reply with quote

Bjorn,
You seem pretty switchied on in the jazz world. You should have a listen to this Australian guy James Muller. He's one of my favourites and easily one of Australias best. He loves his bebop runs and he's tasty with his inside playing as well as his outside stuff. Have a liste. See ya
Tobz


Bjorn wrote:
I am not a big Pat Martino fan, though I know alot of his music.....
I studdied him a few years ago with that goal to be able to make lines with no endings..... Very Happy

What I found out about him after several analysis, was that he actually thinks the same no matter what chord he is deeling with
He simply thinks everything in minor,and uses this "mode substitute" througout.......
Ex,minor is minor, Major 7th chord he plays minor ideas from the 6th or 2nd degrees,stadic dominant:minor ideas from the 5th. altered dominant,minor ideas from the b2nd. diminished,minor ideas from the m7th or the b3rd.....etc...
Hope it can help you....Bjorn.....
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Nohands



Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Muller. To bad there are no Samples on site yet Sad Hope to get to here some soon.
_________________
"Do not fear mistakes, there are none"
Miles Davis (1926 - 1991)
"First you imitate, then you innovate"
Miles Davis (1926 - 1991)
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Christian
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True indeed.

Of the latter, I have to say I think it was Miles inability to exactly copy the style of his hero Dizzy Gillespie that led to his own style.

I'm not really aware of whom I'm copying when I play... Not sure exactly. I like Charlie Parker's lines.
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