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improvising over m7b5 chords

 
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furious B
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: improvising over m7b5 chords Reply with quote

Hey,

I'm looking for some help soloing over m7b5 chords, but something beyond just arpeggios or the locrian mode. Something that has a more altered sound of sorts. I've been running into alot of songs with m7b5's and i never feel like i know what to play over them. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


Brenner
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

You should look into the melodic minor and its modes.
On a Dm7b5 for example, you can play F melodic minor,
D is the 6th degree in that scale. Locrian natural 2.
This scale sounds quite hip.
Check out Pat Martino and some of his amazing lines. He plays a lot of dorian/mel. minor a minor third above the m7b5 chord, sounds great.
Good luck Smile
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guest-Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also try a half tone whole tone diminished scale.
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D
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:43 am    Post subject: m7-5 Reply with quote

Try This--instead of thinking about which scales you can use, think about the chord spelling of m7-5, which is 1,-3, -5, -7. Then consider every note within a chromatic scale using the same root as the m7-5 chord. Then compare chord tones and listen to tones outside of the chord. Any tones that are 1,-3,-5,-7 are going to blend well, everything else will varying degrees of blend to complete dissonance. The beauty of playing with outside tones is the interplay of outside and inside tones, tension and release. Also just try a major scale half step up or down from chord root.
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Christian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minor7b5 arpeggios are great for nailing the altered dominant sound as well as the halfdiminished sound. For example, play the IV-7b5 arpeggio over the V7 chord.

bVIMaj7 are IVmin7 are good over II-7b5

As far as scales go, I favour the chromatic scale over all chord types Smile You can be very free over the more 'dark' and 'murky' chords. All chromatic tones are reasonably inside a -7b5 or altered dominant, provided the pianist isn't playing some pain in the ass extended chord Smile

Just tips really - try anything. If it works, then use it.
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johng
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sure this is probably wrong but I am a beginner so pls correct me or tell me why its wrong or if I can get away with this. I have been getting by on the turnaround type sequences with using A harmonic minor over say a Bm7b5 which goes to E7#9 and then resolves on Am. Is this totally wrong or does it work ?. To my novice ears it sort of sounds passable . Appreciate your help
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jonhg,
This is not wrong, I found it as one of the most ear-falling approaches, though I like to use the melodic minor scales more.
You can play the B locrian nat 2 scale (D melodic minor), over the Bm7b5 chord, and the switch to the E altered (F melodic minor), over the E7alt chord....
Cheers........
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Arteinvivo
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exploring half diminished chord...

http://www.aaronmorris.info/ExploringHalfDiminished.pdf
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johng
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bjorn for the tip and the reassurance about harmonic minor useage.

Who once said "If it sounds right it IS right" ?
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draqza



Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 205

PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Who once said "If it sounds right it IS right" ?


With respect to that... it's even possible to make it right if it sounds wrong, at least in some contexts. One teacher told me:

1) If you're convinced it's right, then anybody who's listening to you will believe it too. (I guess that's kinda like "if it sounds right it is.")
2) If it sounds wrong, keep repeating it until it sounds right. (Or until you're repeating the phrase over a chord it resolves on, hehe.)[/quote]
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Christian
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quote - Duke Ellington, i think? Any other ideas?

Been working on rythm. Need to do some serious work on it. I think that's the key, really - killer timing. Then you can play the blues scale and make it sound like genius.
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