PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

[johng83]

Hey guys, lately I've been working on the tune Black Orpheus, and I'm having a lot of fun messing around with it- but I find that I'm doing a lot of repeating myself. I think the problem is that I don't know too many different things to play over minor ii-V-i's. I play around with harmonic minor some, but I think I end up sounding like a "high school noodler" (a term someone used recently that unfortunately seemed to apply to my use of that scale). I would like to hear some of your thoughts on what you play over a tune like this. Thanks a lot!

[JakeJew]

First of all, don't noodle with scales on this kind of stuff, it usually sounds pretty terrible...troof! Let chord tones be your guiding force

Second of all, transcribe, transcribe, transcribe. Have you been transcribing? Just go and transcribe some minor ii V licks and you'll probably have plenty of ideas.

But here's some technical/theoretical stuff:

I'm starting to think that with approaches to chord changes I think you can usually go one of two ways - 1. make it simpler 2. make it more complicated. Both can sound pretty good

1. When you see Bm7b5 E7b9 don't think of it as two chords. The only real difference between these two chords is that the A note in the Bm7b5 resolves to a G# in the E7b9. So instead of thinking of the measure as two chords, just think of it as E7b9 with an A on the first half of the measure, and a G# on the second hafl. Technically, you'd be thinking of it as E7susb9 to E7b9. Basically just play lines off E7b9 and over the B-7b5 use an A note, over the E7b9 use a G# note.

Or, making things even simpler, you don't always have to resolve to the G#, you could really treat the whole measure as E7susb9, or Bm7b5. The F note can provide enough tension to resolve to E, the fifth of the Am7. This can actually be a pretty hip sound, it's a less obvious sound. Does this make sense?

2. Okay, making things more complicated, first of all if you want to look at scales, look at B locrian natural second (D melodic minor) and E altered scale (F melodic minor.) The neat thing about this is that anything you do over the B you can move up a minor third and poof the same lick will work for the E altered. They are parellel in this fashion. (The minor thirds thing actually works with a lot of different stuff in the context of both a major and a minor ii V)

I actually like looking at a Bm7b5 as an Fmaj7b5. Don't ask me how I got there, it's a long story, but it's my favorite sub for the m7b5. The maj7b5 is a great chord and creates a cool arpeggio. And for the E7b9 I'd think of Dm7b5 for an altered (#5) sound and one of the four available diminished seventh chords (Fdim7, G#dim7, Bdim7, and Ddim7) for a natural 5 sound. But I usually use the Dm7b5. Another sub for the Bm7b5 is Dminmaj7. You wind up getting a natural 2 over the Bm7b5, which is an interesting and um, "jazzy" kind of sound.

Keep in mind that everything is tempo relative - if you're playing the tune at a fast tempo, it will be much harder to futs around with complicated subs with each chord only getting two beats. It's better to use #1 above, simplify the measure to one entity rather than looking at it as two chords. On the other side of things, if things get slower, relative to your brain's current capacity, then you can imply more and more hip shit if you so please. That's the approach I generally take. At faster tempos, I simplify the chart in my head. At slower tempos, I might add in lots of chord substitutions to add more movement.
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"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland

[johng83]

[JakeJew]

[johng83]

[thomasross20]

majb5 arpeggio... What scale are you thinking of there? Lydian...lydian dominant (I mainly use major scale and melodic minor modes... Not too keen on harmonic minor.. Must learn diminished at some point).

I actually prefer to treat each chord individually. It means less thinking about theory and actually just applying something. I'm not too hot on subs, though..
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Music is Life...AWESOME!!!
The "Assassin" trilogy by Robin Hobb. Read and enjoy.
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[Jazzy]

[Bjorn]

[thomasross20]

D'oh! Can't believe I never saw that!
_________________
Music is Life...AWESOME!!!
The "Assassin" trilogy by Robin Hobb. Read and enjoy.
http://www.soundclick.com/thomasross20
http://www.soundclick.com/vivify
www.myspace.com/73680701