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Ebmaj7///Amin7b5 ??

 
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marco



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 9:48 am    Post subject: Ebmaj7///Amin7b5 ?? Reply with quote

hi,here`s marco again
Can somebody explain me the relationship between the Ebmaj7 chord
and the Amin7b5 chord
In the last bar of "Autumn leaves" the Eb maj7 chord is chainsed
for a Amin7b5 ???

groeten marco
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chordspinner



Joined: 08 Apr 2005
Posts: 171
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something looks wrong here. What key is this in? What are the changes in the last eight bars. The "last bar" of the tune, unless you're turning around to repeat the tune, should be E minor.
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marco



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yrr right ,exuse moi
here are the last 8 bars :
Am7b5--D7--Gm7/C9--Fmi7/Bb7

Ebmaj7(Am7b5)--Ami7b5/D7--Gm7--G7
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hope you can help me now!

groeten marco
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Nohands



Joined: 26 Feb 2005
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be looking at the Abersold verson in Bb... Generaly Autumn Leaves is Played in G. In the Abersold verson Bb the last 2 bars will be [G- C-] G- to turnaround. In G it would be [E- A-] E-

So... In Bb the last 4 bars would read [Eb7] [A-7b5 D7] [G- C-] [G-]

OOOOOHHHH Wait I see your Problem You are confusing the Eb7 with an EbMaj7 DO NOT PLAY AN Ebmaj7. You need to use a 5 chord before the A-7b5.

Rewrite your last 4 bars to look like this... [Eb7] [A-7b5 D7] [G- C-] [G-]
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marco



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks nowhands,
its the version from the "new realbook" and yes its in Bb
listend 7 differend versions(from Pass to Sinatra)
they all were in Bb
Not confiuest the Emaj for an E7
the only thing that puzzelled me was,why you can
subsituded a Ebmaj7 for a Am7b5


groeten marco
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Ebmaj7 for Am7b5 Reply with quote

Hi Marco,

I can understand your situation and can recommend a few things.
Firstly that you study harmonised scales, then cadences (V7 I, IVm I, etc),
and then you get some literature on chord progressions that goes into how progressions are built and how chords function ( there is a great book called "Jazz Theory A Creative Approach" by Kenneth Stanton, but I think it's out of print Question ) otherwise you will be often coming across these types of chord relationships in jazz and having trouble making the connections.

Your question can be looked at from many different angles (as a straight substitution, as part of a diatonic progression, as part of a cadence, as part of a non-diatonic progression-for example treating the Ebmaj7 as a I chord, or a combination of all of these!

I'm assuming that I've got this right, the last chord in the piece is Gm??
Therefore you could just see the Ebmaj7 chord as part of the harmonised G Harmonic minor scale
Gm/maj7 Am7b5 Bbmaj7(#5) Cm7 D7 Ebmaj7 F#dim7

makes a vi ii V7 I in Gm?

Any chord from a harmonised scale can be subbed with taste. You need to be familiar with the sounds in order to use them wisely, and you also need to be conscious of the need to increase in tension as the cadence nears a home chord.

Use this stuff now in other songs etc. Next time you see a D7 maybe create an Ebmaj7 | D7 line.

Try other subs. I like subbing the Am7b5 for a Cm9, therefore I end up with a Cm9 | D7 prog in place of the Am7b5 | D7 prog.

I often go Cm9 | F13b9 for the Am7b5 | D7 as if I am building a cadence for Bb a common sub for Gm. As you can see this gets deeper and deeper, and is useless unless you get some background theory on it and get it under your fingers.

Some may argue that when you analyse some subs they are the same or so similar that it's not worth worrying about ("just learn the scale that encapsulates the whole lot") but I say that thinking chords helps to organise you tones and there intervals (for your ears sake). Also I don't know about you but I approach a Bbmaj7 chord with a slightly different angle than I do a Gm9 (a very common sub, with nothing but the G note between them), emphasising certains tones differently and what not. I may be inclined to toss in an F7 line if I'm thinking Bbmaj7, or a D7 line if I'm thinking Gm9.

mmmmmmmmmm it's all fun though Smile

Time for a Shiraz!

regards

Steve
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marco



Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks steve, thats some wise advise
start harmonysing right away,its true
if i dont start at the buttom,ill never understand those things
completley
allthoug my playing is well advanced,my theory is far behind
its time to get those two balanced.
try to find kenneths book

thank you again and
de groeten from amsterdam
marco
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