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Jimmy Bruno Guitar Institute--tried it
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john



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok he has changed his foundation so now I should throw the video away. I will look at the 5 forms from the site.
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JazzGuitarNut



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:48 am    Post subject: CAGED not.. Reply with quote

We've had this conversation in the discussion forum at jimmybrunoguitarinstitute.com and it is very similar to CAGED and yes you are right that he did not (certainly) invent it.
Copy and pasted from site:>>My system keeps the same finger on the same part of the scale, plus the caged system has stretches that leaves you with no fingers for passing tones. I don't know much about the system but I've been using my fingerings for years. It has served well for sight reading when I was a studio musician.<<
When someone posted the fretboard logic shapes and demonstrated the similarities, this was Jimmy's response:<<This is not the same concept at all. In my method, the same 'partial' of the scale is always on the same finger. Also, in the CAGED system of fingerings, their last fingering is totally wrong for what I am trying to teach. I didn't put a fret between strings because then you have no fingers to play the outside tones. In addition, their order is wrong for what I am trying to teach. It's entirely up to the student, but for fastest results do the exercises that I recommend - playing all 5 shapes in all 12 keys. If you go ahead and learn it this way, you will easily see what I am talking about. I just noticed another problem (with the CAGED fingerings). The fingerings have no regard for tonality. This five shapes method does. You need all of these five shapes (sometimes I think of them as 5 pictures), in this order, to easily move up and down the fretboard in a given key. By connecting the shapes, you have available to you the tonal center of the key you are playing, over the entire fingerboard. If you have trouble understanding this, please send me an email. I don't want you miss the fundamentals of the concept and effect of the entire system. If you get this part wrong, it will be hard to make progress later on.<<
Maybe this helps you in your quest. I don't think Jimmy is trying to say he invented anything at all. He's just teaching it in a way that is reaching people around the world. You should check it out and stop wondering what its all about maybe?
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TELCO1



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 163
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: CAGED not.. Reply with quote

JazzGuitarNut wrote:
I don't think Jimmy is trying to say he invented anything at all. He's just teaching it in a way that is reaching people around the world.


I've always enjoyed his playing and now, his method of teaching. I just think he happens to be a great communicator as a teacher. I'm ejoying it thoroughly.

Lawrie
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john



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like the CAGED type of concept but I guess his scales are different than CAGED
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croth



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

john wrote:
Sounds like the CAGED type of concept but I guess his scales are different than CAGED


I just signed up for Jimmy's institute too. They're not technically called "scales". He calls them "shapes". The point is they don't run from tonic to tonic on purpose. He wants you to be able to play lines starting from any note in a scale, not always starting from the tonic.

What I'm surprised at, particularly on this forum, is that no one has mentioned that Chris utilizes what to me is the exact same principle when he talks about the "G major scale in 5 different positions". Check out Chris' Figure 15 in his PWYH course. It's the exact same principle (to me) but Bruno uses the C major scale in 5 positions instead of the G major scale.

I signed up for Bruno's school because it appeared to me that he was approaching soloing very similarly to Standring: no scales, no modes, very little theory; 5 patterns to learn and playing them all over the fretboard while learning to listen to what you're playing. How uncluttered and practical!

Am I missing something here?
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="croth"]
john wrote:

I signed up for Bruno's school because it appeared to me that he was approaching soloing very similarly to Standring: no scales, no modes, very little theory; 5 patterns to learn and playing them all over the fretboard while learning to listen to what you're playing. How uncluttered and practical!

Am I missing something here?


Maybe it`s just me, but I`ve always been interested in theory and understanding as much as possible when it comes to music theory. So I disagree with the "over-simplified" view. If you`re really interested, buy some theory books and read them over and over again. That`s what I did Smile music nerd I guess, he he...

I listened a lot to Jimmy Bruno before, but not anymore.
I hope I don`t offend anyone by saying this; I find his playing is a bit boring. I know he`s got a lot of chops, but it just doesn`t appeal to me.

But I`ll check out the sample on his website...

later
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JazzGuitarNut



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's all about making great music and in a manner that is perhaps easier to implement while you are playing. I think Bruno's point is that it is not about thinking of theory while you're playing, it's about finding the most effective, dare I say efficient, way of having the music come out on the guitar in the same way you are hearing it. Perhaps he thinks the theory "labels" get in the way of musicianship and expression, maybe even technique. You'll see in my earlier thread about Jimmy's explanation with regards to CAGED. Nobody has said he invented anything new here, he just happens to be able to teach a method that is logical and obviously works and is also becoming incredibly popular. Comparisons are worthwhile, but some of the differentiations are pretty amazing when it comes to improving your playing.
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john



Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the concept that is being expressed about the Bruno method. The thing that I am hit with as I watch his video is that he knows the theory. I like to learn the theory and often when I have shared ideas other players werent interested but for me I want to know why. Having said that I dont think that is the best way to get into playing. Having a practical way to slide into playing is a wonderful thing and will do nothing but add members to the jazz community. You cant but see how few people are into this style. Making it more accessable is a good thing. I am really tempted to try his site out.
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JazzGuitarNut



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

$45 and it's going up soon...
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ingeneri



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by ingeneri on Tue May 25, 2010 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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croth



Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 26
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzy wrote:
[Maybe it`s just me, but I`ve always been interested in theory and understanding as much as possible when it comes to music theory. So I disagree with the "over-simplified" view. If you`re really interested, buy some theory books and read them over and over again. That`s what I did Smile music nerd I guess, he he...


Ha! Don't get me wrong. I LOVE theory, though much of jazz theory continues to elude me. I have a fair collection of theory-related books, my proudest possession being Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" which is my regular bathroom companion... Laughing .

I just find myself tripping over all that theory while trying to play.

It's Chris' course that opened my eyes to being able to play around the fretboard and to try to think about trying to play musical lines. I find Bruno's material to be a logical extension of, and very much related to Chris' course. The added benefit that Bruno offers of being able to actually see the left hand work, and his practical presentation of how to approach soloing over actual jazz standards is hugely beneficial to me. It's like having a teacher come to the house.

Both courses are now getting my attention.
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Qrious



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Bruno saying he uses five shapes, and only those five shapes in his improvisation?

And if it's only CAGED, how does he address improvising over non-CAGED (extended, altered, etc.) chords?
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TELCO1



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 163
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Qrious wrote:
Is Bruno saying he uses five shapes, and only those five shapes in his improvisation?

And if it's only CAGED, how does he address improvising over non-CAGED (extended, altered, etc.) chords?


The five shapes are the backbone of what he's teaching. Out of the shapes comes everthing else, including how one handles extensions and alterations. The tunes he has chosen to analiyze, and for students to practice with, have all the elements that's in the lessons. Improve Level Two begins to deal with alterations, extentions, and chord substitutions in more depth.

I've been at it for just over a month and I've found that the one on one video interaction is where the true value is. I've never been more focused and productive with my practicing, and it's all due to the fact that you want to send in a respectable video for Jimmy's review and comments. Not to mention that others see your video as a learning tool as well.

I have books, DVD's, Chris' course, including hours and hours of private instruction. So far, I'm getting the most out of the Institute.

Lawrie
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Guitar Gear:
1968 Raven Semi Hollow
1970 Ovation Balladeer
SX STL-50
Roland Cube 60
Roland Microcube

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Markbass LMII
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Qrious



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess it doesn't compare to the John McLaughlin course Very Happy
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Qrious



Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your feedback Telco Smile
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