PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

[planetguy]

i just got SEVEN Barney Kessel cds! oh man, i am on a major BK kick these days.

anyway, i do listen to current players but much of my jazz gtr listening does involve a lot of older albums from the 50' thru 70's.

so i got to thinking...nowadays almost no one goes to a session w/o a new set of strings on their axe....i'd go so far as to say no one hardly gets outta bed anymore w/o changing their strings.

but i bet back in the day that was probably not the case. economic reasons....being on the rd and not having music stores close by, etc...

...so that got me wondering...."hmmmm, i wonder if a lot of that old stuff sounded the way it does because those cats didn't have the luxury of being able to change their strings very often"

i read somewhere that grant green didn't trim the ends of strings and believed they contributed to his tone. many pics verify this. well, one time... i believe at a recording session he got really upset w someone that trimmed the ends of his strings when he left the room.
_________________
just groove baby!

[Secret2goodtoneispractice]

The string change issue can be related to a player's pH and sweat levels . . . .

I have a friend that will literally corrode a new set of strings after one gig . . . .

I, on the other hand, can play on a set of flatwounds for 3-5 years. The reason for change usually comes with one string breaking, usually high E. Then, if I have to change that one, it's seems like a good time to change all. Then, I go for inexpensive, reliable, GHS flats . . .

Suffice to say that my string-corroding friend doesn't get to play my guitars . . .

Ah, yes . . . old strings . . . personally, just how I like them . . . dark . . . percussive . . . fat . . . hot and cool!
_________________
Beware of alliances that are formed by dividing relationships of others.
.
Trust your own opinion of a guitar or amp. Form your opinion from what you value. Your need, preference, circumstance, experience, and opportunity are the most important factors.

[greentone]

I remember an old (1970 issue, I think) Guitar Player photo essay of a recording session that featured the "Wrecking Crew." Those guys recorded nearly everything that came out of the LA studios, back in the day. Anyway, I vividly recall Howard Roberts holding up his guitar to the camera and complaining that his old strings were on their last legs. He said something like "This e-string has about one song left in it."

You may be right about infrequent string changes. So far as I know, bassist Joe Osborn still hasn't changed the strings on his Jazz Bass since the 1960s.

For the rest of us, I think perspiration IS the real key. My hands are completely dry. I can leave strings on until wear from frets causes them to intonate badly. I have one Telecaster with strings that are, gulp, seventeen years old. I don't play that Tele as much as my other one, so they still intonate. The strings actually don't sound dull.

Flatwounds on archtops that I play as my bread and butter guitars I change about every two years, but I could go MUCH longer.
_________________
Soul Jazz & Blues

[surfrider]

I usually change strings about once a year on most of my guitars. This is done by a luthier who also gives the guitar a "tune up." However, my ES175 and my ES137 have strings that were changed four years ago! The tone is really good and I clean them a lot. Recently, I have upped the gauges on all my other guitars to .012 or .013. The ES guitars have .011s. I think it is time to change them. But, overall, old strings sound really good, especially the flatwounds.

Surf's Up!!!!!!
_________________
I'll play it then explain it later- Miles Davis
http://web.mac.com/jamesjaredtaylorarts

[M]

[jlc]

About once a year, maybe longer, i like to oil the fret board and clean the frets about that often, but with having several guitars too many some might go two to even three years. I do however wipe the strings down after playing, my strings have never felt corroded, like i have felt in some music stores, couldn't deal with that. I only had one guitar set up professionally, that is my Takamine acoustic which needed a needed a new portion of the bridge to adjust the action. but besides the expense and hassle of a luthier, it's just like changing the oil and greasing the car, you just have to know how to make these normal "user/operator adjustments".

My instructor, back in the 50's, adjusted my truss rod one day and told me that part of being a musician and playing was maintaining the guitar. I don't know of anyone who took their guitar to a "tech or luthier" back then.

There is too much hype on this gizmo or that, or change your strings weekly or monthly, besides my old strings generally still sound good, feel good and stay in tune, if anyone of these factors go south than change a string or the set.

Major issues, like my bridge on the acoustic, that required cutting a new piece and fitting it is beyond my expertise, but for all the rest i think the average working or hobbyist musician should be taking care of himself.



peace

[MangoTango]

Hmmm, sadly the non-corrosive thing is not me, so I always:-

Wipe down my guitar after playing with a lightly oiled cloth for strings and a plain cloth for the rest of her sorry, it.

Thorough clean-and-tidy-up every so often, using proper guitar polish

Change strings twice a year or so

Proper set-up after the end of winter (heating-on season)
_________________
“It's like an act of murder; you play with intent to commit something" - Duke Ellington

[dewey decibel]

I think it depends on the type of player you are and the kind of stuff you're playing. Myself, I absolutely hate the sound of brand new strings. HATE. If I'm recording I need to restring at least a couple days prior and have a bit of playing time on that guitar, otherwise I'll hear that "new string sound" all over the recording.

At the same time, on solidbodies I have to restring fairly often. If I don't two things happen- the intonation starts to go, and I'm also more likely to break a string. I usually restring every 3 gigs or so, but often I'll just do the top (plain) strings and leave the wounds. But I've found that on my archtops either of those are less likely to happen. Part of it is the heavier gauge I use for them, and also I think the fact that I use flatwounds on the archtops makes a difference as well. I've had the same strings on an archtop over a year easy.

As far as older cats not changing strings because of money, I really don't think that was an issue. I know some guys (like Steve Cropper) left them on till they broke them, but again, not a money issue but a sound issue.

[toddinjax]

[quote="jlc"]About once a year, maybe longer, i like to oil the fret board and clean the frets about that often, but with having several guitars too many some might go two to even three years. I do however wipe the strings down after playing, my strings have never felt corroded, like i have felt in some music stores, couldn't deal with that. I only had one guitar set up professionally, that is my Takamine acoustic which needed a needed a new portion of the bridge to adjust the action. but besides the expense and hassle of a luthier, it's just like changing the oil and greasing the car, you just have to know how to make these normal "user/operator adjustments".

My instructor, back in the 50's, adjusted my truss rod one day and told me that part of being a musician and playing was maintaining the guitar. I don't know of anyone who took their guitar to a "tech or luthier" back then.

There is too much hype on this gizmo or that, or change your strings weekly or monthly, besides my old strings generally still sound good, feel good and stay in tune, if anyone of these factors go south than change a string or the set.

Major issues, like my bridge on the acoustic, that required cutting a new piece and fitting it is beyond my expertise, but for all the rest i think the average working or hobbyist musician should be taking care of himself.


I think you're missing out on what a really qualified repair guy or gal can do for your instrument. If you've never had a pro set up then you just don't know what you're missing; frets leveled, nut cut to match radius of the board, strobe cut saddle...all this adds up to make a guitar work much
better/easier. .13 can feel like .11's (unless you bend em') lower action with clean, buzz free tone(because the frets are level). This kind of set up was routine decades ago when big companies built the best product they could build and charged a fair price for it... now, well never mind. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of "techs" out there that suck. Find someone who really knows what they're doing and be prepared to pay them a fair price for their experience and expertise and time ($100 to $175) or so.

[sunflower]

[dewey decibel]

[jlc]

Quote form Toddinjax

I think you're missing out on what a really qualified repair guy or gal can do for your instrument. If you've never had a pro set up then you just don't know what you're missing; frets leveled, nut cut to match radius of the board, strobe cut saddle...all this adds up to make a guitar work much
better/easier. .13 can feel like .11's (unless you bend em') lower action with clean, buzz free tone(because the frets are level). This kind of set up was routine decades ago when big companies built the best product they could build and charged a fair price for it... now, well never mind. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of "techs" out there that suck. Find someone who really knows what they're doing and be prepared to pay them a fair price for their experience and expertise and time ($100 to $175) or so.


todd

I think your point of finding a well qualified tech is valid, it is always good to know of one who does good work that you have confidence in, and then if you have a problem that is beyond your expertise of fixing then take it to him. that is why i brought the takamine in for work, but i have tweaked the others as necessary over the years and they all play wonderfully.

But I think everyone should learn enough to feel comfortable doing the normal maintenance and setup procedures themselves.,it is part of being a musician. The first time you do any of these things, especially adjustments to the nut or truss rod you may be apprehensive and if you are uncomfortable then pay someone to do it, but in the long run understanding the physics of the instrument and being able to work with them will make you more knowledgeable. Some of these things take time to learn and to complete, so you either have to acquire the knowledge (and a few tools), have the patience and time or pay someone to do it.

Each guitar is going to have its own feel and requirements, if after doing the setup adjustments it still does not feel right or play right then seek out some assistance. Because remember a good tech is going to want to know what you are looking for, how you play, dynamics etc. etc., (i.e. everyone is not looking for the lowest action on a guitar) so you will have to translate that to them. obviously if the frets need leveling, neck is twisted (may not be repairable)or some other major issue, get help.

peace

[Generic Sobriquet]

I never change strings directly in advance of a show or recording. Like DD, I don't like the "new strings" sound, whatever music I'm playing; I like them broken-in. Plus, new strings need to get the slack and stretch worked out so they'll keep in tune and intonate. But I don't like them way old, dirty, dead and dull sounding, either. I do sweat a fair amount (not excessively), and while I always wipe down the strings afterward, it's gonna happen. And, simply from playing, after awhile old strings begin to behave like new strings. So, when I change strings, I always give a few days and, I dunno, maybe something around 15 hours of play before I'll go ahead with a show or recording. And it can be a deliberate process, too, making sure the play is dispersed evenly up and down the neck and on every string, playing plenty of chords, so forth.

As for how often I actually change strings, it of course varies depending on the guitar, how often and for how long I'm playing it during a given period, and what I'm playing. But, it may average out to about 3-4 months a set if I'm playing them regularly.

Word is that in the old days, fellers strapped for cash would boil strings to get a little more life out of them. I tried that once. If anything it resuscitated them enough for about another week's worth of playing.
_________________
lll
ll

[M]

[MangoTango]

I did that with bass strings when I was a) a bass player and b) a penniless student/graduate. It worked but I made sure to give them a very light coating of WD40 oilf afterwards.

I was told that the boiling would get rid of the bits of dirt, skin, sweat and other gunge associated with being a funky plucker. Dunno about that...they did last longer tho' and at the time I needed all of the financial help that I could get.

In fact, take the word "financial" out of that last sentence.......
_________________
“It's like an act of murder; you play with intent to commit something" - Duke Ellington