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A Modest Jazz Proposal
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ingeneri



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject: A Modest Jazz Proposal Reply with quote



Last edited by ingeneri on Sat May 29, 2010 10:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jake Hanlon



Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 525
Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/signed

I go to everything I hear about in my area unless I

A - have my own gig
B - have students that night
C - am sick.

I love music so I want to go see it. I have no issues with ever paying cover. I give my students the 3rd degree for blowing off any gigs even if they're broke.

How can you expect someone to come see you play if you're not willing to go? Granted, some people have extra-musical commitments, like oh a family. That's fine, I think taking care of your 5 year old is the most important job in the world. But if all you're doing is playing WoW that night, then get off your ass and go check out a set.
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mr. beaumont



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 907
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with both of you. we all need to be patrons of the arts.
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jazzerchick



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 954
Location: SanAntonio , Tx

PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dittos !!
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, well, that's all fine and dandy. You blame the "mass media." Firstly, can we be honest and realistic and call it what it really is: corporate media? Man, get a clue. All that dreck pumped out by the media is the product, a reflection and feedback loop, not the initial root cause.

There has been an ongoing attack on music and arts education, and the arts community in general, for 30 years. It's only one part of a larger movement and prevailing paradigm that includes the destruction and selling of anything that would fit under the umbrella of the "commons": public spaces and places, public education (what do you think of NCLB?), public programs, parks, municipal and public works systems, labor and consumer protections and regulations on big business. All of this is not only political, it's cultural and speaks to Americans' core values.

We're living in the neo-Gilded Age of Reagan. So long as most people in this country continue to actively embrace, or passively allow themselves to abide by, the philosophies thereof, ain't shit going to improve in the arts. An equal, high-quality education including music general arts and a thriving community support of the arts is about as likely as federally mandated civics education, public financing of elections, national health care, a living wage, GLBT marriage rights, actual green energy infrastructure, disassembly of agribusiness, crackdowns on corporate crime fraud and abuse, repeal of Taft-Hartley, minimisation of WallStreet influence and glorification, local small business beating out national chains for zoning and tax breaks, cessation of taxpayer funding of sports stadiums and arenas, an end to corporate imperial globalisation, and broad embrace of animal rights and vegetarianism.

Most people are too caught up in their own selfishness, narcissism, anti-intellectualism, irrational religious fervor, materialism, consumerism, subservience to and even worship of commercialism, reality television, prime-time dramas, sports (watching, not playing), Clear Channel, corporate media, junk and fast food, retail department store and restaurant chains, big boxes, Walmart, malls, parking lots, suburban home tracts, sprawl, fashion, brand logos, billboards, and so on. These are the modern American Values.


Frankly, I don't give a goddamn about supporting some fool selling out to playing background music at some honkey club or bar, hotel lounge, corporate banquet, golf club, or any sort of chain coffee shop or restaurant. Those places are where canned music belongs.


On the subject of PBS specifically, why do you think it's degraded and its affiliates have given over more airtime to "nostalgia shows and glorified infomercials?" PBS is funded by the Federal government, its state and local affiliates (e.g., KET in KY, or WGBH in Boston) by their state governments, and by viewers, philanthropists, and corporations. The reason the quality of its programming has declined is because the public funding has dried up (especially since the Contract with America) and the corporate funding has ever increased. Brit-coms and old B&W films are cheap. Kick out the corporations and their influence, advocate increases in public funding. This goes for the NEA, too.

Um, http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/everything-else/5815-death-jazz.html#post45503?
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planetguy



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Frankly, I don't give a goddamn about supporting some fool selling out to playing background music at some honkey club or bar, hotel lounge, corporate banquet, golf club, or any sort of chain coffee shop or restaurant. Those places are where canned music belongs.


wow...

well, i'm one of those "fools" that regularly "sells out" by playing regulary at restaurants.

and i'm delighted to have the opportunity to share my music w even one person that might be listening.

and trust me there's ALWAYS at least one person listening.

not to mention when some young kid comes up and is fascinated at seeing someone sitting there playing guitar.

i always go out of my way to be welcoming and open with them. this is often the first time they are around a real live musician and the impression our encounter makes on them is very likely to be something lasting that they take away with them.

yeah, why would you want to support some "fool" sitting in a restaurant who might be playing good tunes at high level of competence? someone that has been woodshedding and worked their butts off????

naw....waaaaaaaaay better that the restaurant should have canned music that no one listens to?

because that sends the mssg "music is an unimportant thing to be relegated to the background"?

hey, as i see it any restaurant, hotel, etc that hires live musicians to play "background music" is deserving of support and PRAISE.

they don't NEED to do that and obviously COULD choose to go w canned music.

instead they see the value and merit of having, sharing, and EXPOSING patrons/customers to live music that they might otherwise miss.
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic Sobriquet wrote:
Frankly, I don't give a goddamn about supporting some fool selling out to playing background music at some honkey club or bar, hotel lounge, corporate banquet, golf club, or any sort of chain coffee shop or restaurant. Those places are where canned music belongs.

If I did not do gigs like that I could not feed my family, pay my rent and certainly not do any real concerts or cd's etc. Maybe it's different in the states, but that is how it is in the Netherlands. And I often find that I get to play a lot of real music on some of those gigs.

Jens
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MangoTango



Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 307
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Likewise, my first ever "proper" jazz gig" was at a golf club. Plenty of people came up to me afterwards and said how good it was to hear musicians playing, not a disco, not a singer with automated keyboard, not backing tracks. Got bookings out of it in the end.

Dammit GS, why didn't you tell me that these people should have had the canned music that they obviously deserved?? As for being the fool that obviously makes me.....
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jazzerchick



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 954
Location: SanAntonio , Tx

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taking a few steps back to the original topic, I was thinking of that when I went to hear a little concert the other night.
This fellow was a bus boy at a restaurant where we played a # of years
ago, when he was 14 yrs old. He has another career but has always wanted to try working as vocalist. I've run into him a few times thru the yrs. Then I got this personal invitation from him to come to a concert
where he would be performing. So I made the effort to go before my gig.
He had put together a little trio, got a venue, sent out invites,dressed real nice, stood out front, and put on a really nice little concert! I was so happy
that I went. There were some rough spots and things that didn't go perfectly of course, but I was really impressed with his going for his dream
and he did a really nice job. And he thanked me over the mike for giving him inspiration when he was young, and that he always dreamed of playing
like we did. I'll always remember this little concert. So, you just never
know.
And always try to go support your fellow musicians even tho this is a competitive business. We have to help each other out if we can.
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M



Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Northern VA (USA)

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound like a good person, JC! Nice story.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I find it interesting that the few of you got so hung up on that one comment and completely ignored the rest, all of which was crucial to understanding and supporting that comment.

To planetguy, do note that I said restaurant chains. Local independent restaurants may be another story, obviously. Should also go without saying that jazz clubs/bars weren't included in my derision, either. Notice also in one paragraph where I made implied support of local independent businesses. Hello. It all goes hand-in-hand, part of the same paradigm, phenomenon, "zeitgeist."

Again, to the ignoring of the rest of my post, the few of you seem to have completely missed the point of it. Reread it, try to comprehend.

And how can you imply I would contend that "music is an unimportant thing to be relegated to the background? A) One part of my very point is that quality music shouldn't be used as cheap background music. B) You yourself seem to be advocating that it should. What the hell?


And to Mango, you're not going to get any sympathy from me for a bunch of presumably white, affluent elitists at some presumably exclusivist golf or country club. That setting is completely antithetical to what jazz was, and should still be, about.

But, a lot of you seem to want to completely gut and divorce jazz from any of its historical or cultural significance. That' sad.

I don't know what else to say to you people. We're clearly of entirely different philosophies, world views, and first principles. It's like I as a naturalist am trying to communicate with a bunch of people shrouded in mysticism (to draw analogy from another part of my intellectual and social life).
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ingeneri



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by ingeneri on Wed May 19, 2010 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ingeneri wrote:
What I find most distressing is the clear hostility to musicians in your response.

You can't be serious. Besides a complete misread and miscomprehension of my words, man, if you only had a clue what I've been involved with my entire life.

To the rest, you'll never find me supporting efforts to further commercialise or corporatise quality music and the arts, so again, we're clearly in different worlds there and likely at an impasse. This is why I mentioned NCLB. I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that you would support initiatives like that. Well, those sorts of things are exactly part of what's destroyed music and art programs in schools. Now, whether you actually support NCLB and the like specifically, that can still be used analogously. You seem to be one that supports the very philosophies and structures that are part of the aggressive, hostile assault on jazz, music, and the arts. You simply fail or refuse to recognise that and would rather blame it on some cultural bogeymen (not that some of those cultural criticisms are without merit in their own right).

Like I said, don't know what else to say; it's mentally fatiguing dealing with such people, and definitely not worht putting much energy into it on some internet forum. (Yeah, I'm one of those cats that had I been a musician during Jim Crow I would've been playing in France.)
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ingeneri



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by ingeneri on Wed May 19, 2010 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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planetguy



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it does get quite tiresome....and your not so thinly cloaked racism is especially tedious.


i agree 100% w the notion that musicians in today's economy....or any era for that matter don't have the luxury of turning their noses up at certain gigs because they are in a place that isn't all about supporting the arts.

playing and teaching is my primary source of income. why wouldn't i want to play at "honkey clubs" (whatever THAT is) or for "presumably white"patrons at a golf club? or at a starbucks or hotel lobby?

you can (and should) get something out of EVERY gig you play.
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