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Pat Metheny rags on Kenny G
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2004 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

people here who are defending kenny g are missing pat's point! read the goddam interview! kenny g, whom it is well known is a very limited improvisor, took it upon himself to record OVER a tune of one of THE most important musicians in the history of jazz, louie armstrong. kenny g is the man with the ego problem!! no one could give a flaming sack of crap how many albums he sells! he has disgraced jazz and has the nerve to claim to be a part of it when he would be among the lesser musicians anyway!
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dekude



Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even as a little kid, I knew instinctively that when I didn't have enough money to buy a CD that I wanted, hiding it behind a kenny g album would always insure that it would be there when I got the money.

Never actually heard his music (though I'm sure I have, not realizing it was him), but when you have an album called "Breathless", it's probably a good bet that you're not gonna be the most inventive musician around.

Maybe Kenny G just has that pop-factor down better than a lot of players. It happens... And hey, fi you become famous while you're still mediocre, and if you're a kenny g kinda guy, you'll stay mediocre. "no need to improve. they all love me already."
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MattB



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But the point is, he has sold millions of copies. Sit and think why that is for a minute. It ain't luck pal. Something clicked with an audience. He figured something out. Whether it was sincere or not, who the hell knows. But there is something to be learned here.


...Just because something has sold a million copies doesn't mean that the music is original, talented, etc. I think what Kenny G learned is that in order to appeal to the mindless masses, you just have to conform to the lowest common denomenator. Just look at the rest of mainstream music these days. Look at the Grammy's every year for Christ's sake!! Shocked
Yeah, sure there are always exceptions to the rule, but those are few and very far between.
Personally, I've never listened to Pat Methany (at least not that I know of), but I'll always stand behind someone who takes a stand against the overwhelming amount of shitty, no-talent, flash-in-the-pan musicians/bands that are out there right now. I think more people need to speak up about this. Sure, we can speak our minds in a reasonable manner, but I think the worst thing to do is NOT say anything at all.
Amen, Pat and all the rest of you speaking out against horrible music!!! Very Happy
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-Bob Dylan "Ballad of a Thin Man"
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KB
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:39 pm    Post subject: New Distinctions on the Pat Metheny--Kenny G Debate Reply with quote

Musicians whom want to improve:

I knew Lyle Mays when he went to NTSU. His head was immersed in 20th Century Score Study".... The rest of the time he wrote music for the Lab Bands and practiced his ass off. There are many whom are making comments whom have never even listened to Pats music. OK at least your starting to get honest or get real if you can admit that. HERE IS THE WAY I SEE IT.

Jazz at it's very core, or essence is all about, discovery, invention, taking risks, going to new musical places. That's what improvasation is really all about. MUSICIANS if you choose to carefully read Pat's responses you will be touched by the depth of his understanding, committment, and the actual power of his focus and his history/background. You only need to listen to his playing for 15seconds to realize your in the presece of a true master. IT'S actually a model for greatness, or (Success leaves Clues)....

Most of you don't know or "get" that Pat actually hangs with and knows 100's of Musicians whom play rings around Mr. "G" with 1 to 3 fingers and the fact that they can play the soprano sax in tune. And when he says these virtuoso's are having a hard time making ends meet it's very true. That's subject for another article although.

THE DISTINCTIONS:

Most smooth jazz musicians or artists are at the "A's--B's -- and C's ! Pat Metheny and Lyle Mayes are Literally at the "M's"... Here is what I mean.

They (PAT & LYLE) spend the majority of their time composing...( In fact Pat doesn't even practice much anymore, and rarely picks up his guitar except before tours. This is a very, very, high level of Ability my friends. The same is true for Lyle as he spends the majority of his time composing, and that is with pencil and paper my friends. If you were to sit down and talk to him all he talks about is inversions, retrogrades, and the highest elements of music. ) Pat's intention is to create, expand, the horizon's of JAZZ... This is the POINT and what everybody is missing. And he and everyone in his band have done it through raising the standards, "the bar", risking, and developing new and more adventurous combinations of the "Elements" of Music. He has created the success foundation for himself (Financial) that he can devote all his time to raising the parameters of JAZZ. Most smooth Jazz guys are really struggling with, families, not enough money, and physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion. And it's getting worse as record company's are having a hard time keeping afloat etc. Mr. Standring also has touched on this subject many times and is a wonderful example of thinking outside the box, in all his endeavors... this is true jazz intelligence and work ethic at it's highest too. Folks it's all right in front of you.

AS MUSICIANS--ARTISTS
They are using tambre, dynamics, counterpoint, contrapunal movement and a host of other strategies... Go to a music store open up a copy of Pat's 256 page songbook and you will "Faint" when you see what he has written. Open up a Kenny G songbook and you will laugh. Kenny G and most other successful smooth Jazz artists are still only using "DANCE BEATS, or simple R&B beats, a half baked undeveloped melody, and usually just adequate chords. I DO NOT BELIEVE all this is bad, as Mr. Standering and his Keyboard player very often come up with unique, and clever, music that is somewhat Fresh. Folks "Bob James " has a master's degree in composition from the University of Michigan.

The other thing we don't see are the dozens and dozens of Record company executives in marketing strategie meetings discussing how many millions of dollars they are going to use to create the media hype about Kenny's new Cd.... This is just a marketing tradegie. People just keep seeing the "G" man on billboards, TV ads, etc, and we believe that his music is successful because of that fact alone. Most of us are to stressed out, over worked, blah blah, to stand still enough, quite enopugh, in the present moment enough to really make the distinctions about this. So the music typically washes over you, on the radio etc, and because you hear it so much in rotation you think well it has to be good, or even great.

Pat's main point is that within a "historical context" of what are the pivital elements of great jazz and it's "greats" the "G" man doesn't even hold a candle. WE AS A culture and people are so gullible as to believe what we see. That's advertising my friends. Though the G man spends big 6 figure numbers making his records, they are still very very shallow manifestations of effort, when you use the "Historical context' method that Mr. Metheny so desperately and painstakingly has written over and over.

And lastly he (Pat) just honestly admits that his music and it's depth could be improved as he says he must not be communicating as well as he hoped.
So he is going back at it again and create, better works of art. Go to his Webb site folks and read his posts.. They are truely clear messages and life/musical strategies to getting better.

Ken Boome in Dallas TEXAS....
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MattB



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Flagstaff, Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMEN.
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"...you know something is happening here, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones?"
-Bob Dylan "Ballad of a Thin Man"
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coyotebgoode
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:04 pm    Post subject: Pro-Pat Reply with quote

first off
GO PAT!!!
and that's not biased because i play both instruments. Pat is a musician who has dedicated a good portion of his life studying music and the remainer to create that beutiful unique "unmistakenly him" sound. Aside from Kenny's world record, he's nothing to sing and dance about. He's a showman at heart, not a musician.
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