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JakeJew

Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2018 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:23 pm Post subject: favorite method for tuning by ear? |
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I've become a real stickler for pitch lately.
Guitars will never really be in tune...what is "in tune" anyway?
Anyway, the 5th fret thing isn't that accurate if you have even slight intonation problems. Harmonics are great until you get to the B string. I have various methods I've tried and learned in order to just try to get things as close as possible, but I've never been sold on one thing.
So...any thoughts? _________________ "Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland |
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randalljazz

Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 58
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Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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5th string to a fork. other strings to that string, mostly around the 5-7 frets:
4th string 7fret harm to 5th string 5fret harmonic.
3rd string 2fret 'A' to open 5th string, check against 5th pos 'D' octaves--pick one or split the difference.
2nd string 'E' to 5th string 'E'. (5th pos)
1st string open to 5th string 7fret harm. check 'A' octaves w/4th string.
6th string 5fret harm to 5th string 7fret harm. check 'E' octaves w/4th string. |
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 804
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:04 am Post subject: |
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I usually do some variation on this: http://www.stagepass.com/tuning.html
Seems like I've posted this before. _________________ lll
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JakeJew

Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2018 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Great stuff, thanks guys. I'll give these methods a whirl and check for accuracy. _________________ "Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland |
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Gorecki Site Admin

Joined: 06 Oct 2005 Posts: 53061 Location: Glenwood, MD
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: favorite method for tuning by ear? |
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| JakeJew wrote: | | Guitars will never really be in tune...what is "in tune" anyway? |
An acceptable median for an imperfect instrument?
I try to use all available options and typically I’ll:
* Use electronic tuners because they do work pretty well for a first pass
* Harmonically check 5th and 7th frets (for checking B, I’ll 12th fret harmonic low E against open high E then tune the B against the low E and high E)
* Fretted to open string traditional
* Harmonically check 12th and 7th fret harmonic
* Fretted chord check
* Then make sure I’m still in tune with everyone else.
* Repeat if needed (not uncommon)
I'm a stickler for intonation, lack of drives me nuts to the degree I can't look past it very well.  _________________
Forums Admin for PlayJazzGuitar.com and the New VisionMusic.com Forum.
Do you know where all of your F'n B flats are? |
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planetguy
Joined: 11 Dec 2008 Posts: 244
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Harmonics are great until you get to the B string. |
G string 4th fret harmonic = B string 5th fret harmonic
and/or...
high E string 7th fret harmonic = B string 5th fret harmonic _________________ just groove baby! |
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JakeJew

Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2018 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| planetguy wrote: | | Quote: | | Harmonics are great until you get to the B string. |
G string 4th fret harmonic = B string 5th fret harmonic
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That harmonic is a pure third and so flatter then what we actually want the B string to be. _________________ "Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland |
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M

Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 293 Location: Northern VA (USA)
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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The stagepass approach still is subject to your instrument's intonation issues, because of the fretted notes, but at least it's octave and unisons.
And, yes, don't we all use tuners now? What is interesting, is that you still have to accommodate your instrument's peculiarities, even with a tuner.
When recording rock guitar stuff, I also find that tuning slightly flat helps -- because the heavier vibrato is swinging from at-pitch to sharp. So tuning a few cents flat moves the vibrato a tad more towards center. |
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JakeJew

Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2018 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the real solution is probably to learn to perfectly hear equal temperament 4ths and 3rds. _________________ "Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland |
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wynnphillips
Joined: 09 Dec 2008 Posts: 24 Location: llanelli, South Wales
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Not sure where I read this but it seems good: (= means unison)
A string - Tune the a string to a tuning fork or othere reference pitch.
D string - 12th fret harmonic on A = 7th fret fretted on D string
G string - 12th fret harmonic on A = 2nd fret fretted on g string
Bottom E - 12th fret harmonic on bottom E = 7th fret fretted on A string
Top E - 7th fret fretted on A = top E string open (or 12th fret harmonic on bottom E = open top E)
B string - 12th fret harmonic on D string = 3rd fret on B string. |
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M

Joined: 02 Jan 2009 Posts: 293 Location: Northern VA (USA)
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| lgiro wrote: | has anyone tried either Buzz Feiten or Earvana?
of for that matter a Novax fanned fret guitar (i really dont expect so on this one) |
I hear almost entirely good things about the Feiten setup, although I have yet to play on an instrument that has it. (But I'd like to.) A guy on another forum has had a few of his guitars set up like this.
About the only negative I've heard is that playing with other, non-Feiten-ized players is awkward because the intonation differences are more audible by comparison! |
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JakeJew

Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2018 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| M wrote: | | lgiro wrote: | has anyone tried either Buzz Feiten or Earvana?
of for that matter a Novax fanned fret guitar (i really dont expect so on this one) |
I hear almost entirely good things about the Feiten setup, although I have yet to play on an instrument that has it. (But I'd like to.) A guy on another forum has had a few of his guitars set up like this.
About the only negative I've heard is that playing with other, non-Feiten-ized players is awkward because the intonation differences are more audible by comparison! |
is that playing with other guitarists or playing with anyone? _________________ "Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland |
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dewey decibel
Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 1674
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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When I tune by ear I usually do so in 4ths (up). I seem to hear 4ths better than 5ths. I'll start with a G (as I can usually hear a pretty solid G in my head) and move around in 4ths, double checking with octaves.
| lgiro wrote: | has anyone tried either Buzz Feiten or Earvana?
of for that matter a Novax fanned fret guitar (i really dont expect so on this one) |
I've tried Feiten'd guitars in shops. I don't know what to say really, but they do seem to "ring" differently. If I was playing high gain rock stuff I think I'd go that route, as with more distortion you hear those overtones more and the tuning issues really jump out. But with clean guitars I don't know, I kind of like how you get imperfect results with a regular guitar. |
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steve

Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 827 Location: oz
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to use the fretted note comparison to check my tuning these days.
I used to use harmonics but realised that the majority of my playing is on fretted notes not open strings, and so if I can get the area around the 4 - 9 fret in tune (using octaves, or 4ths, or even whatever) then I would have an instrument that shared out the imperfections (across the neck) as best I could for my type of playing.
I often use an electronic tuner, then play some bog standard major bar chords around the 7th fret and fine tune the strings that sound out by ear.
Does anyone else get calusses on their lobes?  _________________ Miles is the answer. |
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 804
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| steve wrote: | | I realised that the majority of my playing is on fretted notes not open strings |
Weirdo. _________________ lll
ll |
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