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Bossa Nova corner
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randalljazz



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's up with the smiley instead of the number "8"? not what i typed...
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patskywriter



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Durham, NC, USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randalljazz, thanks for that list! i had chosen "só danço samba" because it's an easy-to-play tune. if most people are unfamiliar with it, though, maybe i should choose another tune. hmm ...

i'm curious—why do you say that "blue bossa" isn't really a bossa nova tune? it's one of my favorites! Smile ... and if "blue bossa" isn't bossa nova, then what about "estate"?
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randalljazz wrote:
what's up with the smiley instead of the number "8"? not what i typed...


Code:
8)


Is interpreted by the forum software as a 'Cool' icon. Wink
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patskywriter wrote:
randalljazz, thanks for that list! i had chosen "só danço samba" because it's an easy-to-play tune. if most people are unfamiliar with it, though, maybe i should choose another tune. hmm ...

i'm curious—why do you say that "blue bossa" isn't really a bossa nova tune? it's one of my favorites! Smile ... and if "blue bossa" isn't bossa nova, then what about "estate"?


I think that he means that it is not really a brazilian compositions. Kenny Dorham was an american trumpet player. As far as I remeber they don't play it as a bossa on the original recording, but I am not sure about that.

I think So Danco Samba is a great choice, it has a very typical chord progression and breaks built into the song.

Jens
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patskywriter



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Durham, NC, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think that he means that it is not really a brazilian composition. Kenny Dorham was an american trumpet player. As far as I remember they don't play it as a bossa on the original recording, but I am not sure about that.

I think So Danco Samba is a great choice, it has a very typical chord progression and breaks built into the song.

Jens


i play "blue bossa" as a straight bossa nova tune; that's why i was asking. i guess i'd say that the original recording was quasi-bossa nova; it was recorded back in the days before american jazz musicians really got the hang of the feel and groove of bossa nova. back then, they were playing bossa nova in 4/4! i remember thinking that the worst american bossa nova 'interpreter' was coleman hawkins. charlie byrd was pretty bad, too. he'd get the beat and the chords all wrong. Smile it took a while, as everything new does; i think american jazz musicians nowadays are doing much, much better.

i think i'll stick with "só danço samba" for my instructional video. i hope to get started on it next week.
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planetguy



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure what to make about the coleman hawkins comment....

i can see having a problem w rhythm section instruments (gtr/piano/bass/perc) not getting the feel "right"....but a melody instrument????

actually, it's hard for me to imagine "Bean" (C.H.) playing ANYTHING that didn't totally kill.


Charlie Byrd on the other hand....well, i know he's widely respected and acknowledged for his playing and contributions of introducing bossa nova to a lot of folks...but i've never been a big fan.


as with most things...different strokes for different folks i s'pose.
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the rhythm or feel is also present in (if not dictated by) the melody so melody instruments can be just as off as the rest of us, don't worry Smile

Don't know any Coleman Hawkins recordings of bossa novas though.
I think that Joe Henderson was a good example of a jazz player who got pretty close.

Jens
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patskywriter



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
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Location: Durham, NC, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

planetguy wrote:
not sure what to make about the coleman hawkins comment....

i can see having a problem w rhythm section instruments (gtr/piano/bass/perc) not getting the feel "right"....but a melody instrument????


LOL! i guess i should have said "coleman hawkins and the musicians he played with on his 'latin on impulse!' album" Smile i didn't mean to sound harsh—what i really meant is that it's such a hoot listening to hawkins' version of tunes like "desafinado," where it's obvious that he and the band are in unfamiliar territory. it's fascinating to listen to. he's still got that gorgeous tone, but it's like listening to musicians on an adventure—they're making mistakes but they're utilizing their chops, instincts, and sense of adventure to find their way through.

another example of what i'm talking about ... have you heard dexter gordon's version of "have yourself a merry little Christmas?" (obviously not part of most jazz musician's repertoire.) after all the solos are taken, dex goes back into the melody. but he accidentally jumps to the end, which forces everyone else to adjust quickly (in terms of chords and bassline). you can actually hear him realize that he's made a mistake—he noodles for a couple of beats and then seamlessly finds his way back to where he was supposed to have been. his bandmates are right there with him, making the changes so smoothly that you wouldn't notice unless it was pointed out to you. i love brilliant stuff like that! much can be learned from musicians who have the talent to work through mistakes without getting rattled.

Quote:
... Charlie Byrd on the other hand....well, i know he's widely respected and acknowledged for his playing and contributions of introducing bossa nova to a lot of folks...but i've never been a big fan. ...


i think his bossa nova playing was just OK. i suppose when you're one of the first soloists in a particular genre, you don't have too many points of reference. the one charlie byrd album that absolutely kills me, though, is his "onda nueva/the new wave" album, which he made with arranger aldemaro romero. the onda nueva 'movement' was supposed to have been the next big thing—this time out of venezuela, but it didn't catch on. still, it's a totally delightful album and byrd sounds completely at ease and in his element. the tunes are very happy—almost silly—and byrd's solos are playful and melodic. i have no idea whether "onda nueva/the new wave" is available in CD form, but it's definitely worth checking out. Smile
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patskywriter



Joined: 23 Jul 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Durham, NC, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jens wrote:
Well the rhythm or feel is also present in (if not dictated by) the melody so melody instruments can be just as off as the rest of us, don't worry Smile

Don't know any Coleman Hawkins recordings of bossa novas though.
I think that Joe Henderson was a good example of a jazz player who got pretty close.

Jens


quite a few jazz musicians recorded bossa nova tunes back when it was a fad (early to mid-1960s). most of them are so dated, and honestly not all that good, so naturally, DJs overlook them and play the 'other' tunes off those albums. they're still delightful to listen to, though. i especially enjoy jon hendricks' bossa nova album.

joe henderson was completely and totally awesome! i love his "double rainbow" album so much! i regret that tôm jobím wasn't on that CD. he was scheduled to be on the album but died before henderson went into the studio.
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