PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum
Jazz Guitar Discussion
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Economy vs alternate vs other, revisited

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> The Jazz Guitar Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:25 pm    Post subject: Economy vs alternate vs other, revisited Reply with quote

So what do you do? And what do you practice for pick technique?

I've been working a lot on strict alt picking even for large arpeggios or odd rhythmic groupings where it may not seem practical. Thoughts?

What were you taught?

It seems like alternate is the "standard" pedagogy - where any of you taught specifically to use economy picking from day one?
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
M



Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Northern VA (USA)

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was taught and have played alternate from day one. And, I've been doing it so long that it's ingrained.

There's a Benson-picking thread at another site that I've been following with great interest; however, my general right-hand position is with thumb more or less pointed downward rather than upwards (i.e., the opposite of Benson). And, again, I've been doing it so long that revising it is completely unnatural.

I do explore different approaches as I become aware of them, and I have adopted things when they seem to "click." The question becomes, "How long do I work on something before I am beyond giving it a fair chance to 'click' and I am now wasting my time?"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use mainly alternate, but it really depends on the line or phrase I`m playing. If f. ex. I wanna play a Fminor open triad ( F C Ab on the A, D and B strings ), it`s much more easy to play down down up, than down up down.
I`ve also practiced economy picking a bit, so I guess my picking is a mix between alternate and economy, but mainly alternate.

I also focus A LOT on sound when I`m practicing; pick attack, pick angle and all those things. The last couple of weeks I`ve been working a bit on the bounce technique Eric Jonson uses, have you seen this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACH5Z_YPmVg
Man, his picking and sound is just amazing!

I also think it`s important to find your weak areas and to focus on them. For me, I work a lot with outside picking and left hand strength these days. F. ex. when playing scales just pick the first note on each string then hammer on the rest. This really helps my right and left hand coordination.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
toddinjax



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emily Remler had a point of view on this; watch around 9:00 to the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHqOpK1ubk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was always taught to use alt. picking. Later teachers suggested to combine it with legato playing. Which makes sense too, however the teacher who said that did not have a good sound (to my taste anyway) so I did not listen for a few years...

I guess I practice most stuff in alternate picking but I try to practice arps etc. from low to high on the guitar keeping the fingering open. And sometimes I add directional picking and legato for that, by accident but also on purpose Smile

For alt picking I found it good (and fun) to practice some of the Steve Morse stuff, and I give my students Paul Gilbert songs too (that keeps them busy and my alt picking in good shape...)

Jens
_________________
http://www.jenslarsen.nl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jens wrote:


For alt picking I found it good (and fun) to practice some of the Steve Morse stuff, and I give my students Paul Gilbert songs too (that keeps them busy and my alt picking in good shape...)

Jens


Same here Smile I`ve given this one to a lot of students:
http://www.stevemorse.info/tab/personal.jpg

So which Paul Gilbert tunes do you use with your students? Allthough I`m no big fan of Petrucci, I`ve played Glasgow Kiss with some students too. A great tune for practicing picking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glasgow kiss Smile I did that one too. I think Petrucci's phrasing is mostly quite stiff and uninspired but that tune is a good idea.

I use "Technical difficulties" and "Scarified" with my students (they don't have to play it up to speed).
The left hand fingerings are mostly very easy and very "in position" so it is easy to learn if you already know some scales and then it's just picking practice. They also use simple patterns in positions a lot.

If you have any suggestions I would be very happy. I could use some new stuff.


Jens
_________________
http://www.jenslarsen.nl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip Jens. I`ll check them out.
I also use some Bach for some of my students. And Paganini actually.

Have you heard this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgwW5ePLbI
from 1.10 ( it`s from perpetual motion by Paganini ) I`ve written some of it down on tabs, I can mail it to you if you want.
I find that pieces that are easy rhytmically works the best.

Paganini's 16th caprice is also great for picking, but it`s really hard. I`m also trying to learn the 5th caprice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to have that, I am sure I can pester some teenagers with that! Laughing
I'll PM you my e-mail.

5th Caprice is the one Yngwie did right? Somebody brought that in a lesson a few years ago. It gets a bit tricky when it starts to modulate, we only did the Am parts ,I think.

Jens
_________________
http://www.jenslarsen.nl
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Yngwie Smile I also think Jason Becker has a version on youtube.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So a few things:


The Eric Johnson vid...I've seen that clip before and I think it's entertaining for two reasons:

1. His playing is amazing, unique, very impressive and sophisticated

2. He sucks at explaining things and I have NO idea what he's talking about! How do you "bounce?" Why does he "bounce" for some fast things and do "circle picking" for other fast things? How does one practice the technique? All of these things were pretty unclear to me!





Also, how do you folks define alternate picking?

I always took it to mean downstroke on downbeats and upstroke on upbeats, but there's been a little debate on that elsewhere.

Similarly, if you subscribe to that perspective of alternate picking, how do you manage your pick strokes when dealing with a line that say has one group of 8th note triplets in it, that might offset the remaining notes so that upstrokes are on down beats and vice versa?

Similarly, I find the idea of mixing economy and alternate to be difficult for that same reason - you do directional picking for some notes and it winds up flipping the alt picking so you're picking "backwards" for the rest of the line. Am I making sense?
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> The Jazz Guitar Forum All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group