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Hearing/judging yourself differently/harshly?

 
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toddinjax



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Hearing/judging yourself differently/harshly? Reply with quote

Okay folks, here's an issue I've been having for a while now. When I listen to someone else playing, live or recordings, I can dig a pretty fair amount of tension or outside notes. I don't like players who go WAY out and stay there for measures at a time without touching a chord tone, but I'm really open to rich harmonic stuff. But when I'm playing,... my ears tend to judge those same tones much more harshly. Many commonly used tensions will sound like a crushing dissonance. I just played a note(in the right place, over the right chord) that is commonly used, and resolved it properly, but when I'm playing it, it sounds like a giant clam to me.
It has happened more than once that I've played something that made me cringe a few times, and another player will comment after the tune.. " you were doing some nice stuff" or similar compliment.
Anyone else experience this phenomena?
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe this is not exactly what you are experiencing, but to me it sounds like you don't have the reharmonizations/alterations etc. in your ear.

You are at a point where you know how to play it, what it is and how it sounds but it is not in your own vocabulary yet. There are two things you can do about this one is just keep on, and secondly also when you practice try to play the chords of the reharmonization/alterations in the context so that your ear get's used to hearing them with the complete harmony, that makes it easier to hear it in when you solo on it.

Jens
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sing!
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mr. beaumont



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 909
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playing outside or reaching for dissonant notes is all about confidence.

You have to play it like you mean it...if you're worried about it sounding "out" or "wrong," it's not going to sound good to you. Not to get too "new-agey," but in effortless mastery, Kenny Werner talks about just playing random notes and telling yourself "that's the most beautiful sound I've ever heard."

If you go into an outside line with some real conviction, you'll feel it...I know firsthand...I'm a pretty inside player, and when I tiptoe around and outside line, it sucks...but when I go "all in," I feel it...
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greentone



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 670

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: outside notes...confidence Reply with quote

toddinjax,

Jakejew is so right about this one. If you sing, hum, etc., the line you are going for, it will sound convincing in your ears.

But, in answer to your question, "Yes," I have experienced exactly what you are writing about.
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also to sing while practicing, even (or especially) separate of the guitar. Ex, singing the tension notes while playing the chord on piano, singing odd intervals....ideally we should be able to sing anything that we are going to improvise, even if not with great vocal technique, or not fast enough.

I can sing most of what I can play, just have to go slow...sometimes when I do this as an exercise I realize the harmonic or melodic (intervallic) fragments that I THOUGHT I had internalized are not actually that internalized.

Really the best way to hear things is to sing them
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PaulD



Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1129
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, good point, Jake. I actually have BIAB backing tracks on my ipod that I scat solos to in the car. Pretty scary sight, I'm sure, and probably not the best sounding execution, but extremely helpful by getting the ideas out of my head without regard for fingers.

Paul
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toddinjax



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: outside notes...confidence Reply with quote

But, in answer to your question, "Yes," I have experienced exactly what you are writing about.[/quote]

Thanks Greentone and everyone else too. I was listening to some Jim Hall, loving the solo's, everything sounds GREAT (of course) and then looked at a transcription by Steve Kahn. Jim's playing flat 9's & major 3rds & 7's on minor chords, minor 3rds and flat 7's & flat 9's on major 7 chords and it all sounds great! I think it is largly a self confidence issue, but for me, also having listened to and played so much Baroque music that even though I can hear those tones and dig em', it shocks the hell out of me when I make them myself.
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