PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum
Jazz Guitar Discussion
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Playing jazz/swing lines and vocabulary above 220bpm.
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> The Jazz Guitar Forum
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Henryrobinett



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 180
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One other thing that I found incredibly helpful that sounds exactly contrary to what I think I said above -- practice S-L-O-W-L-Y. Before trying to burn on those fast tunes, play them ultra slow so you can see and feel and GET all the permutations of the changes, phrasing them the way you want.
_________________
All the best,

Henry Robinett
www.henryrobinett.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I just did a little exercise that was extremely helpful right away

I've been working on "I hear a Rhapsody" and trying to hang with it around 300, I haven't been too successful once my solo gets beyond the motivic stage. It's kind of like I'll be barely hanging on and then I'll try something busier and it really turns to sh**

I wrote out a simplified chart of the changes, replacing all the ii Vs with just the V, and omitting a lot of passing chords, so mostly it's one chord per bar rather than the usual two

I spend a while just playing mostly whole notes through these changes trying to only hit chord tones, starting slow but gradually building up the speed to 300. I also sat at the piano and tried to sing guide tone lines through the changes, I have some guide tone/common tone singing exercises I do sometimes with changes, might make the post a little too long to explain those here.

Anyway, the whole idea comes from trying to feel 300 as more like 150 or even 75. Then I put on my iRealB backing track and actually was able to take chorus after chorus without my usual "ah **** where did it go?" No long streams of 8th notes, not quite there yet, but I could keep the form and time and play what I was hearing and hit the changes well, at least I think.

Simplifying the changes, looking for the important notes, wow, not a new concept but I'm both shocked and stoked at how much easier it made the whole thing. Maybe I'll post a clip later.
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Henryrobinett



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 180
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great! Thanks for the tip. I forget about this all the time. A great pianist I play with does this all the time.
_________________
All the best,

Henry Robinett
www.henryrobinett.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it's so obvious but so helpful, and easy to forget for some reason.

I did something similar with "Moment's Notice" a while ago but didn't follow through that much - that tune is so much simpler if you just replace all the ii Vs with the Vs...then it's just one dominant per bar a lot of the day, actually gets kind of easy if you remember which is where.

The nice thing about this is that if you have bebop vocabulary, when you see a bar of G7 you probably play lines that sort of imply a ii V anyway, so...
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Tung



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 203
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JakeJew wrote:




Simplifying the changes, looking for the important notes, wow, not a new concept but I'm both shocked and stoked at how much easier it made the whole thing. Maybe I'll post a clip later.


Making ii-Vs into V is exactly what Joe Pass would do. I'm really glad to see these concepts are working for you. thanks for the report on your progress, very interesting.
_________________
www.myspace.com/tungle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it might be in poor taste to post this, but here was a practice experiment:

http://soundcloud.com/jakeestner/i-hear-a-rhapsody-400

So sorry about the humming/groaning, please try to ignore it! A bad habit but I'm too lazy to try to record another take.

mostly quarter note phrases, a few 8th note lines, so it's a little off topic as I started this thread on the subject of playing more conventional swing/jazz lines (8th notes) whereas this is more just trying to do something cool to hang at a kind of ridiculous tempo.

A funny thing I've been finding lately - *really* fast tempos feel kind of easier because I put less pressure on myself to play swingin' 8th note lines. Tempos like 210-250 are murder for me because I hear conventional swing lines there and it gets hairy w my lack of technique and lack of that type of vocabulary (working on it)

I was listening to some recordings of myself from 2006 and I actually was BETTER at swinging those medium-up tempos because I listened to a lot of Pat Martino and that kind of shit was the only thing I worked on...just playing swinging medium-up post-bop lines. Since then I've worked on a lot more advanced rhythmic and harmonic concepts, more subtle phrasings and articulation, and know about 10x as many tunes, etc. But my point is that it definitely is frustrating to listen back and hear me-from-5 years ago kind out playing myself in a certain arena. That ever happen to you guys? You listen back and go "man I was actually BETTER back then!"
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Henryrobinett



Joined: 01 May 2010
Posts: 180
Location: Sacramento, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah that's definitely happened to me. Or also surprised that I had THAT stuff together, whatever the thing I'm recently working n.

I saw a video tape of a concert we did 10 years ago of the music of Metheny. I mean I've been able to play for a long time, but I was surprised at my phrasing and tempos. I know now where my playing is DIFFERENT, but it made me realize that my playing isn't NECESSARILY better.
_________________
All the best,

Henry Robinett
www.henryrobinett.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> The Jazz Guitar Forum All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group