PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

[JoeS]

I think that it's important to recognize that there is an inherent relationship between the each of the modes and the harmonized chords derived from the major (ionian) scale. As long as you are playing diatonically (that is all within the same key), knowing the modes allows you to gain linear flexibility on the fretboard while soloing and recognizing the relationship of the harmonized chords allows you develope substitutions while comping or creating vamps. If you're looking down at the fretboard, consider that the Lydian mode is edactly the same fingering as the Phrygian mode started one note later. The same is true for the Locrian mode and Ionian. If that be the case, then you really only need to worry about 5 modes, not seven. If you happen to Pentatonic savvy (i.e. know all 5 Pentatonic positions) then you'll notice a great deal of similarity between them and the 5 Ionian based modes that are left. My augument would be in favor of learning the modes, thier Pentatonic based counterparts and the relationship of the harmonized chords to a point where you can move smoothly between them up and down the fretboard. If you use you ears as a guide, then that means you may already have played a less than favorable note, even though a better choice was only a half step a way in most cases. Knowing the modes allows to to avoid these situations more consistently. Then it's off to the Harmonic and Melodic Minor modes and others.
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JoeS - There are no bad notes, just bad choices!!

[guitar-mashdi]

learning modes and patterns on guitar can be really intimidating. And it is because of the natural yet awkward logic of the fret board. In fact, it might be quite dangerous to spend too much time on learning them. At the best, it gives you speed and technique rather than expression and melody.
I think a better way to approach modes and theory is using your ears; precisely, musically trained ears. Training your fingers to follow your ears is much easier than relying solely on patterns and visual logic of fret board. It not only saves you years of practice, but also gives you a unique musical character that most other guitarists lack.
Try to play and sing the modes of major scale first. You can either use numbers for notes or the traditional do re me system or just hum the notes. Later try to sing them with out the instrument in various ascending and descending rhythmic patterns. The next step is to sing with the standards and chord progressions. Sing and name the root of each chord in slow tempi, you can either play the chord progression or use a recorded or midi accompaniment. Then try to sing walking bass lines and or arpeggios over progressions. In this stage, you don’t have to name the notes as long as you know what you’re doing. Make them musical and pay attention to rhythm. There is no such a thing as wrong note. You can’t sing a wrong note even if you want to, and even so, you always can resolve a so called wrong note by moving a step up or down. The trick is to put the outside notes on weaker rhythms.
Try this approach for half an hour a day for a week and then pick up your guitar and play without thinking about modes or theory. I promise that you will be amazed.

[rassi]

The Marster instruktor of Jazz

John Mehegan wrote in Tonal and Rhytmic Principles 1 side 81:

"A mode is a displaced scala playet from root to root of the chord"

A PHYGIAN mode in C major its a c major scala playet from e to e.

Pick up everything about major scala.
Then play all those chords appegio you find indside those major scalaer.

All of them!

major7 - minor - dominant 7 - half-diminished 7 chord. All over the
fretbord.
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Have a nice day!

preben

[Guest]

Hi there

I can't read through *all* these interesting posts - so here's my take on it.

When I started I slavishly used the right mode of the 'right' chord. For example, dorian over minor seventh, lydian over major and so on. The problem came when I found I couldn't get my fingers arouns the altered scale. It was also impossible I also found that playing these scales didn't really give me the jazz sound I wanted.

So I started working on playing solos based around the chords, using chord tones and chromatic passing tones. I got a lot further with this method.

Now I see modes as a way of organising harmony. The two keys, major and minor can be coloured with any mode you choose. Here are some examples of II-V-I's were a mode is used to colour the basic tonality. These common jazz progressions always resolve to C major so they are always in the major key. All modes are built on the tonic unless I indicate another degree with a roman numeral:

D-7 G7 CM7 (all ionian)
D7b5 G7b9 CM7 (aeolian-harmonic minor-ionian)
D-7 Db7 CM7 (ionian-V lydian dominant-ionian)
AbM7 G7b9 CM7 (aeolian-harmonic-minor-ionian)

Tadd Dameron:
EbM7 AbM7 Db7 C (minor-minor-V lydian dominant-ionian)

Soloing over these, I wouldn't use modes fingerings as I find just playing scales is unmusical. I consider these changes all as aspects of the same motion. Why you wouldn't necessarily want to play the chord tones of one over the other, they all indicate possiblities for the improvisor.

I think of certain key arpeggios which give the sound of a mode, e.g.:

minor scale on I degree - arpegiate bVIM7
altered scale on the V degree - arpeggiate IV-b5

In terms of consonance, the notes of C lydian all belnd with C majro, which is not true of C major. The notes of A dorian all blend with A minor and so on for every key. Both modes have no 'avoid' notes, so solos and chords based around these modes always sound like they 'blend' and are 'static' within the harmony. However, dissonant notes introduce harmonic motion, and this is a valuable resource. These notes are often refered to as 'outside.' This doesn't mean that they are neccesarily chroamtic notes. The natural fourth in a major key is an outside note, and it belongs to the major scale!

One common jazz way of introducing motion over static chords is to move all the notes the relevant mode up and down a semitone. This is easy on the guitar.

E.g. over a static D-7, alternate D dorian and Eb dorian.

[MR SILVER]

what is better the caged system or modes? as they are both harmonically different .....for example: if you dont know chord changes of a song then you cant just start playing the caged system but if you dont know the chords of a song you can always play modes all over the finger board
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[christian]

The best system is learning to play anything you can sing instantaneously in positon.

If you learn a new mode or a chord change, learn the sound not the fingering.

This is not the work of a day. Start with individual intervals and do a little every day. Be patient: freedom is the reward.

[alfonso]

thanx, to all for responding to my original post, I've learned alot of differing takes on playing with and without the modes. Now I know my major scales/modes, I find that I mostly improvise with the Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian and Ionian, I pay more attention to what sounds right with the chords being played, than trying to match the modes to the triads within the chords. thanx, again and post away as I like hearing about all the different viewpoints...

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