PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

[wannabjazzy]

I'm gonna start on finally, learining to read! I've done Mel Bay's book 1 eon's ago, got half way thru book 2 ( I think).....

I've been convinced after hanging out here a bit, that it's worth the time to learn. I've found this to be a nice supplement:

http://www.jaydemusica.com/tutorial/

It seems useful. Just got the pro version which also helps out your ear as you learn. Hell, I've spent much more on beer in one nite!
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"....I was gonna play. but I forgot what to play after hearing him!"

[Bjorn]

I think that the best way to learn how to read music is to practise reading it....

I checked the link, but not that much I guess....

But if you try to learn it by reading exercises, you´ll get fooled.
Exercises might be based on patterns, and soon you find youself playing through them by common logic without actually reading.
Other reading exercises might be tricky and will not make any sense (speaking of tonal centers and modes), and if thats the case, you could be reading whatever music as well.....

However, not two tunes are the same, so there is no method which can tell you how to learn it, its not like improvisation where you learn that you can use that scale over that chord and that will fit for all.....
So you just have to train it alot.....

Try practice it with some classical music.
Most of it is beautyfull, and you will allways keep wanting to get to the next bar....
(Motivation)

Just my opinion......

Bjørn.
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Ibanez Guitars - Classical Guitar - 7-String Classical Guitar - 6-string YAMAHA JONH PATITUCCI signature - 8 String Mandolin - 10 String Viola Caipira - Cavaquinho - Pianica & Flutes.
Groups: BW - Brazilian Group, BW - Frevo Orquestra.

[YoungBlood]

I think reading music is best. Find something that makes you interested; be it the Charlie Parker Omnibook, Marc Levine's Jazz Theory book, or whatever- read just a couple of bars or learn a chorus every other day or even every day. Take your time, and make sure you have the right notes. Eventually you'll speed up your time in analyzing whatever it is you're reading.
Practice practice practice!!!
But that being said, I think these type of sites CAN work for you, but don't RELY on them.

[stratocasturbator]

I agree with Bjorn...after 30 years as an "ear" player, I've only recently begun spending significant time, on a daily basis, trying to get my brain to turn those crows-on-the-wire into notes-on-the-guitar...in my view it is doubly tough to do on guitar because of the neck--sometimes a note can be playing in three or four different locations, even when playing double- or triple-stops...one must strive to see the flow of the line, the context and where to go next in order to play it correctly...never mind the other crucial element--translating duration values and playing in time! so, sight-reading at tempo can seem next to impossible. however, I'm finding that with very very patient practice (last night I made it through just 7 bars of a chord melody piece), it begins to flow more easily, and that's exciting. and since there is so much material available-literally hundreds of years of music in standard notation, it's rather unlimited what might be gained from this pursuit. it's kind of like when the roller blading thing was a big craze years ago, and when I got my own skates, I realized that where I live--new york city--is completely paved! I went from strumbling and banging around the local park, to doing grocery shopping or laundry, all while wearing the blades...

one exercise I've been trying lately, is to work just from the paper...when I'm away from the instrument, I take out some music and "read" it by notating the fingerings and positions on blank tablature. I still read from the standard music when I get back to the instrument, but transcribing via tab forces the brain to at least cover some of the mental gymnastics required in translating from the page to the brain...to the fingers....to the ear...

good luck!

[Mark004]

I learned playing tab and when I started playing classical I had to learn to sight read (i could already read from composing and stuff) and I found when I played through a new piece once or twice a day my reading improved very quickly.

Keep at it, it's really useful
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"It is an important and popular fact that things are not always what they seem." - Douglas Adams

[wannabjazzy]

Well, thanx so much people for the good advices! I certainly did not intend to suggest that this little program would replace actuall practice!

It's the old flash card type idea only with instant feedback. I know it's important to have the guitar in hand when learing to read to get that mind-finger link going. What I like about this is that as far as being able to instantly recognize a note when you see it, this really makes a nice little game of it. Within minutes I found myself recognizing notes that I know would have had me in frustrations trying to make sense out of it on a guitar.

Once the notation is firmly fixed in my mind, it'll be that much easier to get the flow going on the guitar. I guess you would have to try it out first to see what I mean. It's nothing more than another weapon in my arsenal. I think a few minutes a day on this will go a long way to fixating the notes in my mind. You can see progress almost right away.

Once the notes are mastered, I will then put that knowledge to use on the guitar. It's not the conventional way, but then again, the computer has changed my whole way of thinking when it comes to learning. The pro version has the correct note played so you also get some ear training out of it...very nice.....plus you have to keep up to the tempo to get the correct answer. Your mind has to react instantly. Nice way to learn, I think.

Being that tab is so popular today, and so many that don't/can't/won't read standard notation, this kind of gives me some hope that I might be able to pull it off somewhat less painfully!

I thought maybe somebody else here in the learning process might find this little game helpful.....
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"....I was gonna play. but I forgot what to play after hearing him!"

[chuckles]

I like the leavitt books too and there's a musician's institute one by david oakes which is really good.

and I'll read bop lines out of the Joe pass books, or there are a million books of etudes for different instruments, the last one i read through was an old and crusty version of Jazz Etudes by david baker.

And i've got barry galbraith chord solo books for working on chords and a stack of classical stuff.

It's also great to read through things like "101 irish songs" because the melodies can be beautiful and full of little surprises....

I think the key is variety and constantly looking for new stuff, not that I'm the most advanced reader in the world but I get by and it gets better slowly.

C

[PaulD]

wannabjazzy,

check out this product too:

http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/sightwarrior.html

It's geared specifically towards learning the location of notes on the guitar.

Paul

[wannabjazzy]

Paul, that looks like a good site as well. I know my fretboard fairly well, but definitely not mastered. There is a differenc between knowing something and having it absolutely mastered.

I have advanced Fretpro which is a really cool way to get the fetboard down. It also has a scales and chord thing to it. I think little programs like these can really take the doldrums out some of the more tedious and boring aspects of learning the guitar.

I'm not a raw beginner and can do some things on the guitar. I've just lately got this idea that if I practice correctly, maybe, just maybe I might actually beome a player instead of just a riffer!
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"....I was gonna play. but I forgot what to play after hearing him!"

[wannabjazzy]

Ok, seems this program was not well received here. That's ok with me. I've had this thing now for a couple weeks and guess what?....it's turning me into a reader!

I post this just for anyone else who might have thought it rather daunting to learn. This has made a world of difference for me. Tab is now something I use for reference and I'm sure if I keep at it, that will disappear. The main issue with reading is to ability to INSTANTLY without thought decipher the musical code and transfer that info to the fretboard. So you also need instant fretboard knowledge. My fretboard knowhow was already in good shape, (lol, thanx to another little program!) so it was mainly a matter of getting to know the notation instantly.

I'm now in the process of applying that information to the guitar. Goiing over my tons of tabs that have standard notation above it. It's a whole new world this way. Instead of thinking in terms of 5th string 5th fret, I'm now thinking D note on string A. This is much better from a musical viewpoint and helps to connect the dots!

I fiigured it better to learn one skill at a time rather than several at once. It was always frustrating for me to have to think about what note I was reading and keep the context of the tune going while trying to figure what fret to play it all on! The really good thing here is that it did not take very long to learn the notes at all. The way the program is set up, it does a very good job of simulating a random reading situation.

Now if that damn carpal tunnell ever gets under control, I'm gonna get there! I now feel confident about getting the PWYH course!
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"....I was gonna play. but I forgot what to play after hearing him!"

[mr. beaumont]

want some good practice? take a couple of bop heads and transpose 'em. now we're talking!
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“For the guitar is the most unpredictable and least reliable musical instrument in existence...and also the sweetest, the warmest, the most delicate, whose melancholic voice awakes in our soul exquisite reveries.”

Andres Segovia

[hanni]

reading music don´t helped me to play, i learned to read music years ago, singing and using it to play flute, but with the guitar it´s another thing, i never used chords and such a mount of theory before, there was no need, only practice with the guitar helpes me.

[wannabjazzy]

well, I was privileged to grow up with a friend who was a virtuoso guitarist. This was a long,long time ago. By age 15 (way before there were any type of "how-to" guitar instruction) he could play anything, and I do mean anything that was on record. Hendrix sounded just like Hendrix, Page, B.B. King, you name the artist, he could copy it.

Not only copy it, but do it right away! And this after only 2 1/2 years of playing!! He had two remarkable gifts: perfect pitch and perfect musical memory. It use to dumbfound us all that he could here a tune once, and then play it immediatlely.
He had absolutely flawless techinique. Even 37 years later, you'd have a hard time finding someone who was as smooth & fast & melodic at the same time. His timing was perfect. I'll bet in 1970 there was no 15 year old in the world that could match him..he could play all night, every night without even one mistake!
It was his most incredible ear that did it for him....plus hours & hours & hours of practice.

He couldn't read. Not then anyway, What for? He didn't need it. He also never amounted to anything, musically! Perfect technician, but where was the orginality?

At the opposite end was my piano playing ex wife who could sight read anything put in front of her but couldn't figure out one note by ear!

Reading is a very good thing I missed out on. It's something that would benefit me. But I'll be the first to admit, maybe not everyone!
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"....I was gonna play. but I forgot what to play after hearing him!"

[mr. beaumont]

to me, reading is necessary to play jazz with people. a sax player ain't gonna TAB out a head for ya, and no piano player has the patience to let you figure it out by ear during a jam...

balance is the key. whenever the reading music discussion comes up, someone will invariably say "well, wes montgomery (or whoever) couldn't read music."

to which i say, when you can play like wes, people'll read to you.
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“For the guitar is the most unpredictable and least reliable musical instrument in existence...and also the sweetest, the warmest, the most delicate, whose melancholic voice awakes in our soul exquisite reveries.”

Andres Segovia