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2 5 1 Embelishments? Fig52 and Fig53

 
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jazzwat8takes



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Philippines

PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: 2 5 1 Embelishments? Fig52 and Fig53 Reply with quote

Helo guys, just up with 251 chord embelishment section of PWYH. Yet, I'm not so sure if I'm messing something here but let me post these confusing topics in the course.

First: Fig.52 Should the note embelishment of F#(b9) is note G? But the
staff shows a G# note. B7(b9) should be C but reflected on the staff
as C3, E7(b9) should b F but reflected on the staff as F#

Second: Fig.53 Note embelishment of chord F#7(#5) should be note d but
reflected on the staff as D#, note embelishment of B7(#5) should
be G but reflected on the staff as G#, note embelishment of
E7(#5) should be C but reflected on the staff as C#, A7(#5)
should be F but reflected on the staff as F#.

Can anybody guide me on this.? I know I was just starting but it really sound differsnt between this notes. I hope anyone know which is proper.

Thanks
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have it with me so I can't check, I'll check later.

In a couple of cases I'm wondering if the notation is a natural sign and not a sharp sign? Based on keys that would be correct. If you could check that's be great. Smile
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PlayJazzGuitar



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:17 pm    Post subject: pwyh Reply with quote

Yes they are natural signs not sharp signs.
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jazzwat8takes



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, according to keys they should be natural signs but it seems there could be some typo since if we look at the notation, the note lies on the sharp. If that is the case we should have an Errata for this or I am just missing something here. Its gonna confuse for us beginners since there is no tab for this section to check it.

Thanks.
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jazzwat8takes wrote:
well, according to keys they should be natural signs but it seems there could be some typo since if we look at the notation, the note lies on the sharp. If that is the case we should have an Errata for this or I am just missing something here. Its gonna confuse for us beginners since there is no tab for this section to check it.

Thanks.


Darn, I'm at work again so I can't look. Laughing

If I'm interpreting what is being described correctly. For proper notation, it is correct.

A simple and fictitious example:
In the Key of G there is one sharp (F#), in notation the staff will contain that one sharp in the key signature area and from there on is assumed that note is a sharp but not written on the remaining staff with a sharp sign. If it were, it should be assumed to be the note G, but wouldn't make sense as the note G is readily available above the F#.

To continue the example, let say a one chord (Gmaj7) is noted, the F note will not contain the sharp sign on the notation, but if that Gmaj7 becomes a G7 (flatting the 7th) in notation, the F (actually F#) should have a natural sign showing to ignore the 'assumed' sharp of the key signature.

Am I making sense, overly simplifying the issue?

Let me know. Wink
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I see what you're saying now that I look at it.

In notation, even though in this case it's not represented with the Key on the left, it does correctly resolve a sharped value with a natural value. Meaning. If the first note is a sharp, the next note is assumed to be a sharp as well unless stated otherwise, in this case Chris used a natural symbol on the next note to show, it's no long a sharp.

He also does the same thing with a natural note and then makes it a flat (fig 53 Cm9 -> F7#5 but the note is referenced with a flat). This example is up for debate. I for the purposes of being consistant would have called it a F7b13 because the note was flatted, not sharped. So I could see how you would be a little confused. But in truth, you will run into these issue in real/fake books as well. There is no one notation standard with jazz, unfortunately. Wink

I like to look at these notes (b5, #5, b9, #9) as extensions (#11, b13, b9, #9) instead of messing with them inside the 7 notes of the base scale but even then isn't the best representation of the note being played.

ie:

b5 = #4 = #11
#5 = b13
b9 / #9 are rarely referenced as b2 / #2
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jazzwat8takes



Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Gorecki, Chris...

Thanks for this clarification. Now I understand why. And I admit I misoverlook the natural sign to be a sharp sign. Maybe perhaps I'm so tired from work and just to excited with my nightly habit. The PWYH course. Or perhaps I should take a little reviews on note reading... Any books recommended to increase/improve my note reading skills. I read notes slowly and takes me time figuring it out on the fretboard.

Anyway, thanks. Sorry for the delayed reply, I was a bit busy in the office this days that got little time to surf the net.
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks Reply with quote

You've noticed music is like any language, you may be able to speak it (play it) but not be able to read it and usually it takes more training/effort to read it than to speak it. Especially interpret it! Wink

http://www.musictheory.net is a useful free starting place.

GuitarMadeSimple does go into basics of notation but I can't recall right away it it's enough to understand what just happened here. Confused

jazzwat8takes wrote:
Gorecki, Chris...

Thanks for this clarification. Now I understand why. And I admit I misoverlook the natural sign to be a sharp sign. Maybe perhaps I'm so tired from work and just to excited with my nightly habit. The PWYH course. Or perhaps I should take a little reviews on note reading... Any books recommended to increase/improve my note reading skills. I read notes slowly and takes me time figuring it out on the fretboard.

Anyway, thanks. Sorry for the delayed reply, I was a bit busy in the office this days that got little time to surf the net.

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