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Licks on Oleo-type bridge
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Licks on Oleo-type bridge Reply with quote

Hi all,

let me introduce myself for my first post as non guest! I'm a 24-year-old English student in Lyon, France and I play mainly gypsy jazz but am interested in playing more modern, bop-oriented music.

Here's the question I'm asking all of you: what kind of licks do you play on an Oleo/I got rhythm-type bridge ie D7-G7-C7-F7? My problem is that I tend to play and actually think "vertically" ie D7 arpeggio or D mixolydian over D7 etc and would like to think more "horizontally" ie go THROUGH the chord progression in a fluid way. Basically it's my problem for all chord charts and it seems to come from the way I tackle gypsy jazz which a very triad/arpeggio-oriented style. Thanks for your help
jj
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hugo har



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3
Location: la serena, chile

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: licks on oleo-type bridge Reply with quote

hi jj, I remember the joungnicholasˇ question about " my take on rhythm changes" I reply, B section, read it please. Oleo, I got rhythm, are rhythm changes. B section, playing "outside" with short phrases, obvious at first, knowledge of the harmony and play mixolidian up or down a half step.
take care, hugo har
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks hugo, but as youngnick I can't seem to understand what you're trying to say. As I said I'm already using the mixolydien mode on corresponding chords, I'll try your trick of moving it up or down a half-step but what I'm looking for actually is licks
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TELCO1



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 163
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jj wrote:
thanks hugo, but as youngnick I can't seem to understand what you're trying to say. As I said I'm already using the mixolydien mode on corresponding chords, I'll try your trick of moving it up or down a half-step but what I'm looking for actually is licks


Try this link.

http://people.uncw.edu/russellr/rhythm.html

Page two may help you out with some ideas.

Lawrie
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Mr. Lawrie Mann: Toronto, Canada

Guitar Gear:
1968 Raven Semi Hollow
1970 Ovation Balladeer
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow thanks a lot this site is really interesting Smile
By the way I notice your call yourself Lawrie which if I remember well is the British short of Lawrence (I think it's Larry in the US), are you actually English?(I once met a guitarist called Lawrence who told me he was living in you area...)
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I think mixolydian is a great place to start. But I also recommend checking this out: over D7 play arpeggios from the different chord tones; D7 - F#m7b5 - Am7 - Cmaj7.
Also try to incorporate chromatic passing tones and targeting in these arpeggios.
And at the last chord, F7, try an F altered scale. This resolutes nicely to Bbmaj7 again.
Try transcribing some Pat Martino and George Benson lines.
Good Luck Smile
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TELCO1



Joined: 25 Apr 2005
Posts: 163
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jj wrote:
wow thanks a lot this site is really interesting Smile
By the way I notice your call yourself Lawrie which if I remember well is the British short of Lawrence (I think it's Larry in the US), are you actually English?(I once met a guitarist called Lawrence who told me he was living in you area...)


Hi JJ,

Glad you think the link will be of assitance. I found it interesting as well. In fact, I stopped working on Rhythm Changes until I lucked upon it.

You're right in that my real name is Lawrence, but I've been called Lawrie since birth. If my parents called me Lawrence, it was because they were upset at something I did Smile Not English though. Born and raised in Toronto.

Lawrie
_________________
Mr. Lawrie Mann: Toronto, Canada

Guitar Gear:
1968 Raven Semi Hollow
1970 Ovation Balladeer
SX STL-50
Roland Cube 60
Roland Microcube

Bass Gear:
SX SJB-75
Douglas WEB-825 NA
Markbass LMII
Bergantino AE112/HS210 Cabs
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you jazzy, now let me try and understand how your suggestion relates to D7:
F#m7b5 is F#-A-C-Eb ie 3-5-7-9b to a D chord
Am7 is A-C-E-G ie 5-7-9-4 to a D chord
CM7 is C-E-G-B ie 7-9-4-6 to a D chord

It seems quite a clever way to avoid linear development of a D7 arpeggio
Alright I'm gonna try and find out what it sounds like Smile
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

F#m7b5 is F# - A - C - E, not Eb. Eb is the b9 of D7.
Glad if this helps you.
And then when you have practiced your arpeggios a lot, you can try using different permutations. ( check out Jerry Bergonzi`s book "melodic structures." )
It`s also clever to learn all the different intervals in the scales.

Michael
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops yeah I'll blame it on a slip of the finger Wink . By mentioning intervals do you mean something like C-E-D-F-E-Getc or C-F-D-G-E-Aetc, same again with 5ths, 6ths and 7ths?
I've tried the first two but it takes ages too integrate it in your fingers' memory, and it's quite demanding for the picking hand too...gosh yet another thing to spend hours on , quite exciting though (I'm up for anything takes me away from linear playing)
Thanks again
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, all the intervals. It really helps the picking hand.
I play down-up-down-up, alternate picking. I think this gives me the best sound and swing.
Regarding the intervals again, another cool thing is to play triads. Learn the different positions on different string sets and playing them them in eights, triplets, sixteenths etc. Breaking up the ryhythm is important thing to work with.
And one last cool thing;
On D7 -this sequence : Ab - A - F# - D
B - C - A - F#
Eb - E - C - A
F# - G - E - C
This pattern is a triad played from the top note, but with a chromatic approach tone to it. It`s really effectful when you`ve worked with it for a while. Try playing the excersise in different scales/positions etc and rhythms.
Let me know how it goes Smile

Michael
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Licks on Oleo-type bridge Reply with quote

jj wrote:
Hi all,

let me introduce myself for my first post as non guest! I'm a 24-year-old English student in Lyon, France and I play mainly gypsy jazz but am interested in playing more modern, bop-oriented music.

Here's the question I'm asking all of you: what kind of licks do you play on an Oleo/I got rhythm-type bridge ie D7-G7-C7-F7? My problem is that I tend to play and actually think "vertically" ie D7 arpeggio or D mixolydian over D7 etc and would like to think more "horizontally" ie go THROUGH the chord progression in a fluid way. Basically it's my problem for all chord charts and it seems to come from the way I tackle gypsy jazz which a very triad/arpeggio-oriented style. Thanks for your help
jj


Hi JJ,
You can try to switch the mixolydian scale to the mixolydian #4,
(mode of melodic minor), and as jazzy said, switch to the altered over the last F7(alt) Chord)
Cheers, Bjorn.
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jj



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Lyon, France

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

does altered amount to playing the 7th arpeggio a tritone above or below the given chord (ie Ab7 over D7)?
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It`s a tritone either way, above or below. If that`s what you mean?
It gives you a D7b9#11 feeling.
If you see it from a melodic minor point-of-view: ( over F7 )
Gb-mel.minor, the 7th degree is F-altered scale. ( alterations #11, b5, b9 and #9 )
C melodic minor - the 4th degree is F-lydian dominant.

In addition try, f half-whole. This is different from the altered scale, natural 6th instead of #5.
A lot of information maybe... Smile

Michael
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2005 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzy wrote:
It`s a tritone either way, above or below. If that`s what you mean?
It gives you a D7b9#11 feeling.
If you see it from a melodic minor point-of-view: ( over F7 )
Gb-mel.minor, the 7th degree is F-altered scale. ( alterations #11, b5, b9 and #9 )
C melodic minor - the 4th degree is F-lydian dominant.

In addition try, f half-whole. This is different from the altered scale, natural 6th instead of #5.
A lot of information maybe... Smile

Michael


Gb melodic minor scale over F7(alt) Gives the altered tones b9-#9-b5-#5,
that was propably what you ment, I just comment it to clear any doubts. Idea
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