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Altered Dom Licks
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:06 am    Post subject: charts Reply with quote

Hi vlad,
It's called TAB and it's a cheap and crappy way to communicate limited info on the guitar only. However since I don't know how to get regular notation onto this forum It's all I got.

It's very simple. There are six lines. The first/top line is your first string (the skinny one - sorry!) and the numbers are the frets. Cool?

Take care, Steve
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vlad



Joined: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Steve!
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: ii v stuff Reply with quote

Here' a concept (or two?) that I've been after for a long time. The first was how to play a major third over a minor chord, other than just a passing note (I'd heard it done by people like brecker and Kenny Garret), because it has a surreal sound to it. The other was to understand the ii V in the New Zealand Song (There Will Never Be another Yew), the Am7 D7 Ebmaj7, just before the big turnaround.
I couldn't handle writing it off as a "passing chord" , I wanted something that would fit my way of thinking and approach. Best I had was it was the regular two five moved up in tones because of the augmented relationship. Still didn't like this.
Anyway how's this: It's a ii V into the very common iiim sub for the I?
In other words we're thinking Am7(b5) D7(b9) Gm instead of Fm7 Bb7 Eb. Now I liked that! Plus it gives me the major third in a minor chord sound!!
Of course it take time to get used to it and all that, but it works well.
Here is proof for my thinking:

Code:
Am11   D7b5    Eb (Gm7#5)
------------|-------------
--3---------|-------4----
--5-----5---|---3---------
--5-----4---|---5--------
------------|---6-------
--5-----4---|---3---------


From There'll Never Be......

As for single note lines I found that the best way to incorporate the concept was to begin the line on a shared chord tone with the original chord.
So back into key of C. Try this:

Code:
(F#m7b5)                     (B7alt)                     (C6)
Dm7                          G7                           C
-----------------8--12--8--|--11--8---------------------|------||
-------------10------------|---------8------------------|------||
------9--11----------------|-----------8--7-------------|------||
---10----------------------|-----------------10--9------|-7--7-||
---------------------------|------------------------10--|------||
---------------------------||---------------------------|------||

starts on the "and " of one. Don't you just dig that major third sound?
Whadaya think?
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the nirs



Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats up Steve,

Thanks for the great idea! I was thinking about this concept as well, playing major third over ii7.
I think reharmonizing the progression works well. So for example:

for:
dm7----|G7----|C Maj7

solo over
am7 D7| dm7 G7|Cmaj7

or

ebm7 Ab7|dm7 G7|Cmaj7|

I don’t think it matters how you reharmonize, so long as you know where your going. If you are playing with a sick rhythm section, they will be able to pick up on what your doing, and play the new changes.

Here is something I was messing around with.

(am7----------D7 )-------------(dm7 ----------G7)
dm7_____________________G7 _____________________CMaj7


---------------------------------|------------------------------|
---------------------------------|----------------11-9---------|---
----------9-12-11-8------------|-----9----------------12-10 |--9---
-10--12--------------12-11----|-10----12-10----------------|-----
---------------------------------|------------------------------|
---------------------------------|-------------------------------|



in this example the D7 sets up the next short ii - V to C.
How do you get you tab nice and neat?
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:16 pm    Post subject: licks struff Reply with quote

the nirs, who are you, you crazy cat!?

that lick of yours was a beauty!
Quote:
I don’t think it matters how you reharmonize, so long as you know where your going.


You are right on! Absolutely, as long as you know where your going. Mmmmm, that's like poetry.

Good on you
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:46 am    Post subject: half whole Reply with quote

Here's a neat little idea that stumbled across while fiddling on my guitar.
I used to be very much a scale based player before I got into the bebop and hard bop genres of jazz and then switched to be very much a chord based player because thatn creates the sounds that I currently dig the most.
Anyway, I was looking into the chordal implications of the half whole scale that i had known for quite some time, and I realised that the half whole scale can be seen as a G7b9 with a semitone approach note to each note. (or you can approach each note from the scale tone above and get that cool Stitt pattern that he used on Mile's Autumn Leaves).
Then I realised that to appraoch each chord tone from a semitone above while descending was simply done by moving the half whole tone scale up a semitone! How COOL!! So you can burn up one HW scale, move up a semitone, and burn back down.

Examples, both start on the "and" of two.
First one is bebop straight eights.
Second one is a fusion sixteenth note thing, so put your Strat on, hit the crunch and squeal!

Code:
Dm7              G7b9                C6
----------------|-------------------|---------||
----------------|-3-5-6-{4}---------|---------||
----------3-4-6-|-----------7-5-4---|-4-------||
------5-6-------|-----------------5-|---5---5-||
----------------|-------------------|-----7---||
----------------|-------------------|---------||



Dm7                        G7b9                              CMaj7(#11)
-------------------------|----------------------------------|---------||
---------------3-6-5-{4}-|-------4--------------------------|---------||
---3-----3-4-6-----------|-7-6-5---4---7-5-4--------4-------|---4-----||
-----5-6-----------------|-----------7-------7-6-7----7-6-4-|-5---4---||
-------------------------|----------------------------------|-------7-||
-------------------------|----------------------------------|---------||


The { } brackets signal the point of change of scale
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: more alt dom Reply with quote

G'day folks? These ideas doing anyone any good?
Like I said I love to share stuff. part of it is selfish I confess, just using this thread to organise my own ideas, but also because I do enjoy sharing. If you have any cool concepts nomatter how bizarre I'd love to learn 'em?

This idea I is a lifetime of study! I've known it for many years and have never had time enough to develop it. I can't remeber where I got this one from. Mick Goodrick rings a bell. (But then, so does Quazzimodo)

Basically the concept is to play any pattern you like regardless of the key so long as you start on a chord tone. The idea that the chord tones will ring enough to stabilise the idea and give its direction. So invent a pattern starting on a chord tone, then repeat it identically starting on another chord tone.

First two ideas start on the "and" of three, and use sixteenths. First idea being build on a G7 chord, second the same but using the b9.

Last example is bebop eights, constructed by playing a note from the G7 chord followed by a note from an E7#9 chord.

Like??
Code:
Dm7              G7                               C
---------------|---------------------------------|----------||
---------8-5---|-----7-5-------------------------|----------||
---7-6-5-----5-|-4-6---------7-5-----5-3---------|-/4-------||
---------------|---------5-7-----3-5---------7-5-|------5---||
---------------|-------------------------5-7-----|--------7-||
---------------|---------------------------------|----------||



Dm7              G7                               C
---------------|---------------------------------|----------||
---------8-5---|-----7-5-------------------------|----------||
---7-6-5-----5-|-4-6---------6-8-----5-3---------|-/4-------||
---------------|---------6-8-----3-5---------7-5-|------5---||
---------------|-------------------------5-7-----|--------7-||
---------------|---------------------------------|----------||


Dm7         G7              Cmaj7
---------|-----------------|---------------------||
---8-6-5-|-4-8-------------|---------------------||
---------|-----4-7---------|---------------------||
---------|---------5-6-----|-------------------9-||
---------|-------------6-7-|-10----10po9po8po7---||
---------||----------------|---------------------||

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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh no, I learned a new thing!
This one I just recently learned from one of our own (the forum's) resident guns. The idea is simple, but the work..........

Play arpeggios using intervals.

For this idea I have played a Bbm/maj9 arp harmonised in thirds as a sub for A7:


Code:
Em7b5       A7                   Dm11
--------|-------------------8--6-|-5----||
--------|--------------6-10-10-8-|-6----||
--------|----------5-6-6-10------|-5----||
--------|----------7-8-----------|-5----||
--------|-0----------------------|-5----||
--------|-let ring---------------|------||


I've been flat out working 3rds since being turned on to this idea, but what about other intervals?

Cool?
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PaulD



Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1129
Location: Chicago

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool Steve!! I like it!

Here's my contribution:
Code:
   Am7              D7   GMaj       
--|------7-8-7-----|----|--||
--|--5-8-8-8-5-8---|3-3-|3-||
4-|5-5-9---9-5-7-9-|5-5-|2-||
6-|7-------7-5-7-9-|5-4-|2-||
--|------------7-10|----|--||
--|--------------8-|5-4-|3-||


[edit] to correct the last chord in the Am7 bar

Paul
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dewey decibel's post on the use of 3rd and b3rd reminded me of another concept I learned ages ago and use frequently.

The idea/concept is that you play a substitute target I chord over the Dom7 in anticipation, but then divert back to the original I chord at the appropriate time.

It is limited by what constitutes a I chord, and also by the need to develop tension (so not good to go Dm7b5 | Cmaj7 | Cm7|| for example) but never the less could lead to to creative ideas and rut busting.

The first idea anticipates a Cm/maj7 as the I chord.
Second example anticpates an F#maj7 as the I chord.
The last example anticipates a Cm7 as the I chord, and brings in the b3 over the G7.

Whaddaya think?

Code:
                 (Cmelodic minor)
Dm7                G7               Cmaj7
-------------5-8-|-7-5-3-----------|--------||
-------5-6-8-----|-------4-3-------|--------||
-x-6-7-----------|-----------5-4-2-|--------||
-----------------|-----------------|5-2-----||
-----------------|-----------------|----2-0-||
-----------------|-----------------|--------||


                  (F# major scale)
Dm7                G7               C
-------------5-8-|-6---------------|---------||
-------5-6-8-----|---6-9-8-7-----6-|-5-------||
-x-6-7-----------|-------------6---|---------||
-----------------|-----------8-----|---------||
-----------------|-----------------|---------||
-----------------|-----------------|---------||




                  (C aeolian scale)
Dm7                G7               C
-------------5-8-|-4-3--------------|---------||
-------5-6-8-----|-----4------------|---------||
-x-6-7-----------|-------5-3--------|---------||
-----------------|-----------6-5-3--|-2-------||
-----------------|------------------|---------||
-----------------|------------------|---------||

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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just started going through this thread- some nice stuff here! Cool

Anyway- I liked the idea of using the ii-V (namely the V) of the relative minor. It makes a lot of sense, especially if you're treating either as a b9 chord, and it does let you recycle some old licks, but the way they resolve to the Imaj7 chord can be different, but in a good way. That last idea I've used in some forms, but when I anticipate it's only for a beat or two. That second example sounds really cool, but I can't hear how it would sound in context. It's funny, a lot of these you could explain many different ways.


BTW- I liked this one, too;
Quote:

Code:
Em7b5 A7 Dm11
--------|-------------------8--6-|-5----||
--------|--------------6-10-10-8-|-6----||
--------|----------5-6-6-10------|-5----||
--------|----------7-8-----------|-5----||
--------|-0----------------------|-5----||
--------|-let ring---------------|------||


...but I changed it to use the whole tone/augmented sound- it's almost there as is. Sliding things like this on guitar is a really cool sound;

1)x
2)10-6-2
3)10-6-2
4)x
5)x
6)x

BTW- you guys have got to show me how to type TAB on this site....
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Yagyu



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

and some idea with major triad stepping outside (this way I`ve got one outside note and two notes from altered chord) + chromatic pass on the end, this one do funny things with tension/release, but it`s working (or so thinks my ear Wink )
Code:

  G7b9                         Cmaj7
e---------------------------|--
h--3---------2-3-4-5-7------|--
g----4-----3------------6-4-|-5
d------5-4------------------|--
a---------------------------|--
e---------------------------|--

And by the way this idea comes to me from my rock playing experience Wink .
Oh, and you should play it over the two bar G7b9, 12/8 time or use 16ths/triplets (I was playing this line first timme in 13/8 time)


Last edited by Yagyu on Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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jingles



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 34
Location: Kristiansand, Norway

PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2006 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, lot's of great stuff here! thanks guys Very Happy
I really liked the VI-vi-I progression, I've never even tried it before. Thanks again, a lot of this is complicated, but I'll get busy analyzing the licks, runs and progressions and maybe I'll understand some more Smile

take care Cool
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mr. beaumont



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 909
Location: chicago

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i want you all to know i'm sitting here at work without a guitar and i'm salivating...can't wait to get home and try some out...great post!
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to shar some too, but how the h...Do I do this tabulature
system....

Code:
 
Em7b5       A7                   Dm11
--------|-------------------8--6-|-5----||
--------|--------------6-10-10-8-|-6----||
--------|----------5-6-6-10------|-5----||
--------|----------7-8-----------|-5----||
--------|-0----------------------|-5----||
--------|-

I cant believe that I have to ''write it in hand'' there must be some tricks....So please if you know, help....... Wink

Thanks,

Bjørn

PS: By the vay, the above code example is not mine, I just copied as an example from another......
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