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Altered Dom Licks
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Yagyu



Joined: 15 Mar 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:

C#alt/C#7/G7/E7/Bb7
E-------7--------------------------
H-----6----------------------------
G-6-7-----9-7---6h7p7--------------
D-------------5--------------------
A----------------------------------
E----------------------------------
this legato is fast - it`s 16th triplet


it`s really safe lick over C#alt (C#7#9b5), it is really C#alt arpeggio, but it bring some colour over C#7, sounds more disonant over G7 and got hip-but-still-nice sound over E7 and Bb7 It`s basically something which I`m now messing around dominant lick played over 4 different dominant chord (starting chord, tritone sub, and chords minor 3rd from starting chord)
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey I want to explain an idea, but it will take to long and You'll say i'm crazy. Paul's common tones inspire madness.
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I already think you're crazy Ed, so explain away!

(gotta love ya though)
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally got the counter melody on Eleanor Rigby working with the main melody. It started out as just a common tone idea for the counter line on "All The Lonely People Where do they all come from" there is a counter line in the chord change. It's like four chords but only one voice is really changing. Well if You play three note left hand chords on keys that's how it works. Chords are em7-em6-C/E-em. The decending line is D-C#-C-B. Or the flat7th of em7, the 6th of em6, the root of C/E, the 5th of Em. So there are so many ways You can keep a common tone on top and move the line back.That was cool but the melody was right there on the e string so I ended up combining the two best I could. You have to go up for the melody, but I try to keep the line moving back as the melody moves. It feels like two seperate parts so that's cool. Paul makes me think about voice leading, and I'm sure you do great versions of the new American Songbook yourself . Man I made the coolest bass counter for Hey Jude today, and there's a major 7 sharp11 trick on the other part of Eleanor Rigby. Now I'm on The Boxer, that has shaped up well. Playing a melody and a Travis pattern together can be hard, you guys know.It's Pop day, yes I'm Crazy.Hey That's another song I love.
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And at the end of Eleanor Rigby there is a true Counter melody ,the melody , and the chord line. maybe Steve could do all three. You are crazy too steve.
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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Location: Davis, CA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ed norton wrote:
And at the end of Eleanor Rigby there is a true Counter melody ,the melody , and the chord line. maybe Steve could do all three. You are crazy too steve.


If it's any consolation Ed, I never appreciated the writing ability of the Beatles until a Jazz focus was in the picture for me. I simply never realized how good it was. Rolling Eyes
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It so well crafted, I'm glad you are getting into some of it. There's always something there for the jazzer.
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too right Ed! Many jazzers would/do totally agree, some call the Beatles jazz! Their songs are full of great ideas.

Here's an alt dom idea that works nicely:

* When you come to the dominant chord, play the root note on the 6th string and then grab a voicing or two from the melodic minor scale two frets back. For our ii V in C try Fm/maj9/G.
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just heard a French tune which I believe is by ''Camille'' and I think its called ''1 2 3''
Its actually not guitar but there is a guy who plays flute, and there are alot of of funny ideas in that.
If anybody know it, let me know what you think....

Bjørn...
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pickula



Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 78
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a fun thread! I haven't had time to go through it yet with the full attention some of this stuff deserves, so I hope my contribution isn't just duplicating ideas that have already appeared.

From the standard altered scale/superlocrian (eg Ab melodic minor over a G7) you can extract the notes Bb Db Eb F Ab which is a pentatonic of Bb minor. It also happens to be made up of the sharpened and flattened 5th and 9th notes of G7, plus the actual 7th note - you don't get much more altered than that!

You can take this idea of extracting pentatonics from other scales and follow it through in a ii-V-I sequence like this, again in C major - from the D dorian over the Dm7 chord, you can extract the A minor pentatonic, and from the from the C lydian over theC Major7 chord, you can extract the B pentatonic minor . This gives a scalic approach to the Dm7 - G7 - CM7 sequence of A, Bb and B pentatonics respectively. There are some interesting sounds to be found in amongst that mixture, it gives a Scofield-type sound if it's phrased right.

What's fun to try is to practise this over a backing of Dm7 - G7 - CM7 - A7; the A7 of course gets you smoothly back to the start of the sequence again, but to add to the fun, you can extract the C pentatonic minor from it, so you can improvise over the whole sequence by moving pentatonics up a fret every time the chord changes.
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This is a fun thread! I haven't had time to go through it yet with the full attention some of this stuff deserves, so I hope my contribution isn't just duplicating ideas that have already appeared.


Yup, that's why it's pinned, this thread is going to end up being an education all by itself! Mr. Green

Quote:
From the standard altered scale/superlocrian (eg Ab melodic minor over a G7) you can extract the notes Bb Db Eb F Ab which is a pentatonic of Bb minor. It also happens to be made up of the sharpened and flattened 5th and 9th notes of G7, plus the actual 7th note - you don't get much more altered than that!


I abuse the hell out of that as well, I like to call it the 'instant out' scale. Laughing
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YoungBlood



Joined: 26 Apr 2006
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought I might make an attempt at throwing my hat in the ring here. So here's my first attempt at the "code" above, as well as my offering to you fellas. Apologies should either of these been posted prior to this (I searched, and think I'm safe!

Anyway, I like using these two on a ii-V7, or first part of a iii-VI7-ii-V7 turnaround. Or, when "super-imposing those changes over a static I chord.

Code:


      Emi7        A7b9+
    (or Emi9) 

E---------------------------------------------------------------------------
H----------7----6-2------------------------------------------------------------
G--------7----------3---------------------------------------------------------
D---5--9--------------5 ---------------------------------------------------------
A---------------------------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------



Or this over a III7-VI7-II7-V7

Code:


     B7+b9     E7+          D9       G7b9#9+      Dmaj7

E---------------------------------------------6-----5-------------------------
B--8----------7------------5------------4-8---------5-7--5--------------------
G---8----------7------------5---------4-----------------7--6------------------
D----10-7-------10----------7-4---6-------------------------7---------------
A-------------------11-------------------------------------------------------
E---------------------------------------------------------------------------



I didn't really get too creative with the Dmaj7 resolution, but for example, this works- but again nothing fancy. [/i]
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something that I just picked up this morning while going through a Pat Metheny transcription of Angel Eyes, and I love the sound!

Playing lines over the alt dom which contain no 3rd. This example I emphasise the use of the replacement #9, that is instead of playing the 3rd string 4th fret I replace it with the 3rd string 3rd fret.

Simple concept, cool sound:

http://media.putfile.com/no-3rd-dom-lick
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS
As lgiro points out in a recent post the blues scale will also achieve this and sounds great when you get used to it. Cheers man, great tip!
That's G blues over the Galt

The progression for the above example btw is a straight forward Dm7b5 G7alt Cm6
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat, Steve! I've said before that I think exclusion is an underrated concept.
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