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sick and tired of fusion guys and especially teachers
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2004 1:07 am    Post subject: sick and tired of fusion guys and especially teachers Reply with quote

I'm really sick and tired of seeing around fusion "teachers" that recomend the listening to and playing of bebop standards (for example) with a funky groove etc. I like the modern guys that sound tasteful and that know what they're playing, but I would recomend to a student to listen to Charlie Parker's version of Confirmation if you're studying that tune.Some guitar players that just love to use the slap tecnique on guitar,and use only pentatonics shouldn't teach jazz guitar,they think they're modern,they're just naive(and cause damages)...
MARCO TURCO Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Im with you all the way! People should dig in players like Kurt Rosenwinkel! He is surely a player that has his own language!

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Hi!

Im with you all the way! People should dig in players like Kurt Rosenwinkel! He is surely a player that has his own language!

John Hall


Hello John!
i'm with you, finally somebody stands up for jazz.Thanks. I think most of the jazz guys are just afraid to piss off somebody or they are afraid somebody is goin' to tell them, ehi you're a conservative! But this is not the point! The point is that if you're a teacher and you say:"yeah, I played some wrong notes, but that's jazz you know..."well you're wrong!!! and the damage is done. Somebody care! I CARE!!! damn! AND I'M NOT AFRAID!!!jazz is too important to me , and i saw teachers(some)like these in very famous schools.
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John Hall



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2004 8:29 am    Post subject: Okey! Reply with quote

Hi!

Okey thats what you mean and one more time i think you are right!
I reed some pages written on jazzimprovisation dont remember right now who wrote them, by the way he said there is to way to look at jazzimprovisation the one he calls "ready, fire, aim" it means not praticicng scales, time, chord changes etc. just close your eye blow your horn and hope for the best. Ande then there is the other way the "ready, aim, fire" meaning that you shall practicing eatch element of the improvistaion one by one so you really know what you are doing and not just fooling a round in a scale.

So practicing is the best way to get the best!

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 3:16 am    Post subject: the two options mentioned,for me are "one" Reply with quote

practice practice practice, and listen listen listen , key factors , no doubts for me.
about the two options john: ... well, unless you're not a talented genius (1 over billions) it's very difficult to just close your eyes and ..play!
Anyway some special guys they did just like that.
for us, (for me) normal guy, it worked a lot "to know". I'm for knowledge, but, knowledge works especially when you forget about that while you play, and you just play.
knowledge works uncounsciously.You let go, and eventually you'll play great stuff that you don't know.
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ortnot
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:57 am    Post subject: everything has it's place Reply with quote

solos and changes must fill the tune withdifferent directiond ,leading the soloist to unfamiliar territory and stretching accompianists to provide harmonic foundation. Inn short,no matter what style is created or imitated at the moment, the solo sounds good ,firmly grounded in melodic contour,interesting sequences and intervals,and a beginning ,middle, and end to lead the listener thru the changes and the emotion of the tune.

Preferably in 4 choruses or less!!!
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 12:57 am    Post subject: honestly Reply with quote

all the things you say make sense.
BUT, I think, with John , we were actually talkin' about something else.
The topic was initially about some fusion teachers.Then I said I am for knowledge. But after practicing I like to forget about everything and let go.
I hate my playing when I'm not able to do that, and I hate when, playing something difficult, I start to "think" a lot , and I'm always a little bit behind what I'm doing and behind what happens.
What do you think about that?
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John Hall



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

There is one basic philosofy i have about practicing and improvising.
And it is this: When you are practicing you should think about just one thing that you want to improve and dont mind if your solo gets boring or somewhat predicteble. For example if you are working at your rythmic time feel you should mind if your melodic ideas not is as great as they use to be. Do this whit the areas you feel unsecure with until you feel safe then continue to do it until you dont need to think about your rythmic time annymore. Or as you were talking about hard chord changes.

BUT it is very important to remember to you not are praticing when step up on the stage. Then its just to close your eyes and listen to melodic lines that appear in your mind . And i promise you the things you have pratice will show of in your way of playing without thinkin.

And as you said the key is to listen. Often if you are playing with good musicians then they surely has another way of looking at the song your playing listen to what they do and if its something funny then grab it and make it a part of your solo.

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:22 am    Post subject: practicing, playing Reply with quote

ok john, interesting subject.I've been thinking about these things a lot during my ten years carrier , I would like to add also:

Don't forget to have a happy social life, I know some musicians were great even with a "complex" life (chet baker, Bird and manymanymany...)but they were so talented, they played extremely well even if they were on drugs and stuff. To just close my eyes and let go I have to enjoy what i'm doing and be happy, I have to like the music I'm playing on...I don't have enough talent to play whatever wherever, I wish I could but I don't want ...
another thing: I recently use to set a time for my practice session.2 hours workin' on my composition, two hours on my bill evans' voicings andtunes...and I try to stick with that even if sometimes I feel I'm not going anywhere, eventually ..something (even something else)is goin' to come out.
let me know...
www.marcoturco.com
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John Hall



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

I believe that you should do this. You should ask yourself how much you have developed as a player with the praticing routine you have right now. If you have the right praticing routine you will know it after a month or a little more. Then you know the stuffs your working on somewhat not all the way but it feels okey and you can use it in your playing.

If it feels like you are standing at stomping at the same point all the time maybe you have the wrong practicing routine.

I believe that it is important to divide your practicing between use and fun.
You need play practice your chords or timefeel or whatever then you need to just improvise freely just play whats in your head. Maybe totally free or maybe to a Aebersold record or something just play and have fun.

After all the point with playing is that its not should be a bring thing you do to make a living it should be fun and feel good when your playing.

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:50 am    Post subject: "i can't play,but i'll be a very good teacher!" Reply with quote

your last words are a key point many people miss during their journey thru music ...
it happens with a lot of young kids). "I don't know they told me I should learn this and that".
No, man you're right, my life and my music must be the same , must be the things I like the most.Life's too short to start playing the stuff I don't like first. I didn't I'll never do. I don't want to have time for things I don't have fun with. Yesterday I've been talkin' with Ted Green , he's a very nice and intelligent guy. He told me he saw a lot of guys so unhappy to play horrible music just for the living. Music is a gift , it is not a job, It never was a good job.Ask Mozart if you think that a precious gift could be the job and the life that you like.
That's also why many teachers suck! They love teaching mixolydian to kids that have their same talent (zero.zero) because that's the best they know, and you know what?They were lokking for a job.It's the dream of their lives,they feel good about that because there are no precious gifts in their minds.No music at all.Just a job.
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John Hall



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

Your right all the way music is gift that your born with. And we can just be lucky that we can do what we like the most. Thats how it should be.

I had a terrible teacher a wile a go he was actually a rock guitarist that have start to play jazz on his older days. He has no time or period feel at all. Hes not playing on the chord changes hes just playing his scales that comes with the key.

Then i started to play for a guy on Swedish High School of Music (Im from Sweden) and he plays wonderful a is really living with his music.

Thats how it should be.

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:45 am    Post subject: and some more money... Reply with quote

yeah my friend , I'm with you , it's exactly what you're saying,
plus I just would really love to have some more money , i'm broke because of jazz. I'm happy though. But I'm broke. So , that's the only thing I'd like to see more in jazz musicians ' lives.

www.marcoturco.com
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John Hall



Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi!

I have spent a week playing with one of the best basist in scandinavia and it feels like i was lightyears away from my regular playing! He made me sound fantastic!!! So play with guys that are better than you without feeling i shouldn't been playing here just do your thing and enjoy the music your making!!!

John Hall
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marcoturco
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:30 pm    Post subject: same band different levels Reply with quote

i'm not sure I understood what you wrote this time John , especially in the last part of your message ...anyway It's true what you say in the first part..To play with guys way better than you is simply breathtaking ...it's like jumping on an airplane , to me especially if i play with a very good drummer (that it's very important !). The "way" of expressing oneself on guitar ,piano, horns etc. can be easily arguable due to stylistic preferences. But even the best musicians are not going to sound "right" with a mediocre drummer.
all the best my friend ...www.marcoturco.com
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