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Racial Debate
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The modern guys are so great, all of them. I guess Metheny is like the Godfather with his brothers Sco and Frissell. ok then Kurt, Monder, Kriesburgh, Krantz, Rodgers, Moreno, Lund, Van Ruler, Gilad, and a few more just coming out of school. Great guitar and music, but I find classic music, usually with some kinda vocal ,effects me better personally. All that guitar jazz is so introspective and contemplative. It tends to be so self absorbed, and even the best let the licks rule the music sometimes. Sure the music itself is Jazz , but it makes me feel the same way Steve Vai and Satriani made me feel in the 80's. I liked those guys , but never went out of my way to listen to them.
Anyway sorry but the upcoming election has me stressed out. I'm highly annoyed by Obama and his army of rich liberals who think they know what's best for our country. Obama's mom is white and he went to Harvard, but he wants to play the Ghetto race card to gain favor with the masses. Oh anyway i'll try to stay away from here till it's over. Don't want to start fights. see ya, Good Luck holding down the "Texas Fort" Igiro, I'm sure your prepared for what could be a rough summer.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you kidding? Obama and his campaign have tried in earnest to avoid race as an issue as much as possible, until forced into it with that Rev. Wright nonsense. Whereas, I think he and everyone needs to talk about race and not be shouted down by mindless accusations of "playing the race card" which, be honest, is just white code for "sit down and shut up, n-----." White people are so scared of black people.

What exactly is "Texas Fort" supposed to be code for? That's a new one for me.

And do you suggest that the rich right-wingers know what's best for our country? Der.
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If someone thinks that backporch blues is lowbrow sheeiet then i think that they are perfectly entitled to that opinion, and furthermore that adjective is a perfectly adequate way of expressing an opinion if one chooses to do so. Appreciation is also subjective, there is no objective truth to what is adequate in music, what is skillful, and that someone should at a minimum offer some sort of aknowledgement to it as a form of art. As it was said in Curb Your Enthusiasm " there is no patient-hygenist confidentiality". Having said that, it boils down people not smearing their morals onto others.

Inevitabely this thread would boil down to Barack Obama, though im not certain that Ed really meant to incite some sort of political riot.

My opinion is that SRV was a more than adequate blues-man, but i dont really lilke the blues all that much.

To comment on the newly born subject matter... Sometimes "playing the race card" is code for "playing the race card" it happens, but i do think that Obama has mostly avoided the race topic in any overt sort of way.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, the reason he and his campaign have avoided it is because of the very reason I gave: White people are scared of black people. Obama was "safe" early on—for white liberals who wanted to pat themselves on the back for supporting a black guy—because, well, he's only half black, and he was raised by his white mom, and he's "articulate and well spoken" as Biden said (translated: "he's one of the 'good ones' who talks like one of us," because as all white folks know, all black folks talk with that funny accent and use ebonics, right). But then the Rev. Wright thing blew up and suddenly Obama was just another militant angry black man. Hide yer women!

He has to avoid race issues and pretend to be "post-racial," as the numbskulls like to call it, because even in a Democrat primary you have in some places up to 20% of voters admitting race is the main determinant in whom they voted for, and 70% or more of them voted for Clinton. And those are only the ones who admitted it—in a Democrat primary.

Anyone who thinks that "racism is over" in America, and that black folks should "just get over it and move on" is either lying to themselves or everyone else.

By the way, to the "unification drivel" comment, don't forget your demigod who repeatedly drummed the vapid catchphrase "I'm a uniter not a divider" and feigned a moderate political ontology in order to appeal to a wider demographic than say, if he were honest about his positions and intentions.


Okay, so, not to decree the last word unto myself, but methinks we should prolly let this die pretty quick in order not to sully the forum too much.
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>deleted<

Last edited by dewey decibel on Fri May 30, 2008 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ingeneri



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 441

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by ingeneri on Wed May 19, 2010 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed my post. I didn't say they're all bad, I said we're all bad. But I didn't pull it because of what you said Ingeneri, just because I don't see the point of getting into this conversation on this forum right now.
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Volume Swell



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The race debate goes way too far. I think Michael Moore summarized it very well in "Bowling for Columbine" when he talks about how white people are afraid of black people. It's very easy to see when Gen Sob is saying, because it's true. In America black people are made out to be the enemy by TV. Shows like cops and the nightly news all depict black people as being dangerous and angry.

That's why it'd make sense for Obama to not bring it up, and that's also why it makes sense for Hilary to bring it up. If people are scared of him, then they won't vote.

Oh and one of Jimi's bends has more soul in it than a Mississippi gospel choir. He rules.
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:


why do people need to "talk about race"? what about it, anyway? race, race, race! there, we talked about it.

what they hell are we supposed to say about it? are we supposed to have some fuh-king encounter group or sit in or something, to make everybody feel special? we already went through this in the late 60's and early 70's. thats what people are talking about when they say, "move on". or even better, "move up" or "move forward" or "get on with it already".



Because it's still an issue in this country, and it's still causes problems. The first step in fixing the problem is owning up to it. And no, we didn't own up to it in the '60s, that was just a first step. The whole point is people can't "move up" or "move forward" or "get on with it already" because it holds us back. It's like alcoholism- the first step is admitting there's a problem.
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
what is the problem? define it. what is "the issue"?

that different races exist? that pigmentation exists? what is it that you want to jawbone about, and to what ends?



That people get treated differently based on their race. That it's not an even playing field because of this. Everybody's so freaking scared of each other it makes me sick.

Seriously, you mean to tell me this country has no race issue?
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know this whole "white people are afraid of black people" sort of irritates me, please, you cannot speak for the entire white race.

Lgiro is right in that a lot of the problem of race is the "problem of race" itself. First off, i generally identify myself with liberal ideology, but one of the things that gets to me the most about liberals and being around them is this: I am not allowed to have the same human emotions towards minorities that i am towards other whites, this includes any spectrum of so called "negative" emotion. And that is a race problem.

Clearly as anyone can see we have improvements to make in race relations. However, in trying to correct a problem things often get reversed, do no good, or worse do harm. Being born in 1984 i feel i can comfortably assert with what i feel is a strong human moral, that i dont owe any African American anything but to treat him as an individual and not as a race. Within politically correct docturine every minority is born not as a individual but as a minority because they are told from the start that as a whole they need something that I dont need myself or dont have something that i have that they are at a disadvantage, this is psychologically and culturally isolating. If you look can see that both racism and this isolating, reducing, super politically correct race rhetoric are embedded in power structures and both are race issues. We must be able to say what we feel, good or bad.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You demonstrate exactly my point, Igiro. The pervasively typical subtext in what you say is, "look, we let you black folks have your little temper tantrum through the '50s and '60s, even into the '70s with your black power crap, we appeased you with some bleeding-heart liberal mumbojumbo legislation, the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, bussing and affirmative action—we were so magnanimous—now sit down and shut up and be happy we even brung you here in the first place."

Last edited by Generic Sobriquet on Sat May 31, 2008 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
no, i'm saying that there is no perfect and complete fix for it - ever.

and what remedies do exist, arent being worked on hard enough.
actions speak louder than words.

we've heard all the talk.



I agree with you there, actions do speak louder than words. But words are important too. As I said in the other thread you often come across with a certain tone, and I don't always know if it's intentional or not. And again, I'm not saying you need to be totally PC- I hate all this reactionary, whinny, BS too. What fun is that? But there's a difference between that and respet. Sometimes your tone comes across as less than respectful.
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Volume Swell



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dewey decibel wrote:
lgiro wrote:
no, i'm saying that there is no perfect and complete fix for it - ever.

and what remedies do exist, arent being worked on hard enough.
actions speak louder than words.

we've heard all the talk.



I agree with you there, actions do speak louder than words. But words are important too. As I said in the other thread you often come across with a certain tone, and I don't always know if it's intentional or not. And again, I'm not saying you need to be totally PC- I hate all this reactionary, whinny, BS too. What fun is that? But there's a difference between that and respet. Sometimes your tone comes across as less than respectful.


I agree. I try not to post very much when it comes to Igiro, just because of the way you react to it.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Translation: I'm going to use some sophomoric sophistry to bow out of this subject but in so doing redirect the onus from myself onto you. Wasn't that clever of me? I sure put you in your place, just like my buddy Rush does every day. Take that!
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