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Racial Debate
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodobop wrote:
"Explain how a perfectly sound 47 story structure just fell down, at free fall speed, for no valid reason (a fire, no longer burning on several floors doesn't cut it) ... and why the site was sanitized quickly, why no real experts examined the location, only cursory exams were done of the building materials, and why the collapse of Building 7 wasn't studied meticulously as one of the biggest engineering mistakes of all time."


I have always been confounded by this also. By using intuitive physics as i will call it, what we know from exploring our own environment, i would assume for that building to fall down exactly into itself that way is for it to break or melt at specific points. Yes, it was strange that the building was partially burning and just like that in seconds is completely collapsed on the ground. It definately seems counter-intuitive that it would not favor some sort of direction or even so much as fall into any adjacent locations, making for a very quick and efficient clean up. I dont however see how its useful to assemble detailed stories about why it happened this way. Im also not a physicist or an engineer so im going to stay away from making assertations about what is possible in the physical world, if i was im sure i would be much more well equipped and willing to afford everyone here some clarity on this issue. I am not an apologist.




voodobop

If anyone can answer the questions posed on this site, I'm all ears.

http://www.wtc7.net/

The problem, of course, is that some people have already made up their minds and NO amount of evidence to the contrary can change their minds. They label any of the recently presented material on this matter as 'conspiracy' and simply dismiss it. Pathological skepticism.

It would mean they would have to admit they were mistaken and it would shake their whole world view to the core. Some people just can't do it, can't acknowledge they might be wrong, or be working off of incomplete, misleading or erroneous information.

There is that 'religion' thing again.

I really have to thank Igiro for re-igniting my interest in this stuff, as over the past week, in my spare time, I have found a wealth of new data on 911. Igiro was good for supplying a far right view point. That is how much of the America thinks, so I think it was a value on the forum. IMO, he was quite unelightened in some areas, bless his heart , but I'd like to see him back actually. I suppose he got tired of being one against many.

Anyway.... the evidence on the demolition of the WTC is really pretty baltantly out there, if one just looks.....
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodobop

PS... many people think those that question the government's 911 story are a bunch of kooks. It is surprising to see how many scientists and scholarly types are doubting the official explanation and presenting a much more scientifically sound and believable alternative scenario.

Believable... believe! There is that word with religious connotations word again....

;0)
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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Location: LA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GUITARLAW wrote:
Doc, you know there is way to much money involved and the people that would need to be investigated have way to much power and the US has to much to lose if it was ever really investigated...even the cover-up afterwards will never come out.. people would rather think a simplistic answer was the facts because if they ever realized the extent of the coruption in our government than they might be required to do something about it...so play music and know these criminals will pay for it at some moment in time....Michael

Touche.. once again.

I will go back to playing music here soon. I needed to satisfy my own curiosity about 911 (simply for my own edification) and I have. I did that several years ago. I just added more data t my knowledge base and cleared up a few more questions recently (largely thanks to responding to Igiro). I have learned so much though, that I have a natural tendency to want to share it. However my research and discoveries are other people's heresy.

So be it.

Life is funny that way
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc, the truth is never a bad thing it just makes most people uncomfortable....I miss igiro also for differant reasons, and enjoyed your effort to seek more than the excepted story of 911.. I once was close to a women who worked on the warren commmistion as a law student and there was info that was never released in the official report, so who ever knows the truth in any of these government crimes.....Michael
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DocDosco wrote:
I'm all ears.

Really, have you read the sources I originally suggested after your brought this up? Your bunk has been debunked, and not by the government. It's readily available if you care to read some other source beyond those that reinforce your preconceived conclusion. Your mind is so open your brain has fallen out. Most of your diatribe against me is more reflective of your own pathology. The end.


GUITARLAW, not only might I be generically (and unapologetically) described as a "leftist," but I'm also a black man born and raised in America. Don't lecture me on the past and present evils, lies, injustices, and casus belli perpetrated by the US government—always, by the way, with the citizens' acquiescence and sometimes fervent support.* Have you not been paying attention to the things I've typed up on this forum? Damn.


You two need to bone up on the subject of logical fallacies.


Last edited by Generic Sobriquet on Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic, Damn,I thought your inteligence made you differant not your color.but I always thought of myself and others as human beings.I was shocked when someone told me my late wife was yellow because she was asian and my presant wife is half chinese and half spanish so I never could figure out her color,guess I will just stay with thinking of people as human beings and I will continue to believe thay all have human rights and the government has and is denieing them less and less sinse 911...and I do not care what color the children are I am pissed at the number that are dieing now for bushes war, I am tired of the innocent men women and children who always pay for these goverment leaders insanity...Michael
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic Sobriquet wrote:
DocDosco wrote:
I'm all ears.

Really, have you read the sources I originally suggested after your brought this up? Your bunk has been debunked, and not by the government. It's readily available if you care to read some other source beyond those that reinforce your preconceived conclusion. Your mind is so open your brain has fallen out. Most of your diatribe against me is more reflective of your own pathology. The end.




So Noam Chomsky doesn't see any government complicity 911. Really? Blindness comes in all shapes and sizes. So what? Do you need Noam Chomsky to think for you?

Gore Vidal believes 911 was an inside job. Again, so what? I certainly don't take his word for it.

I don't want or need to be told what to think. I have followed the evidence and satisfied myself at what have learned.

Learning. Try it sometime.

Listen, you can wallow in your illusions for all I care. That's the problem with America, people are spoon fed what to think, and loose the power of discrimination and independent thought ...and simply begin to parrot the views of the consensus reality.

Your thought process has been manipulated my friend, and you don't even know it...

Forget other people's opinions for a minute. Think for yourself. What about Building 7?


PS ...I will agree with you on one thing. Blacks get the shitty end of the stick in the country, especially if they are poor. I have a 14 year old adopted son who is black and a 23 year godson (his brother, also black) who is facing 25 years to life in jail on trumped up charges. I am a white guy but I see that crap and it really pisses me off....
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Last edited by DocDosco on Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: footnote Reply with quote

* The cassus belli you referenced weren't and aren't some grand secrets of which, supposedly, no one but the perpetrators on the inside were aware. For example, every WMD claim was debunked, its validity destroyed, within a day or two of its claim. These are not "recent revelations" only to surface in the last couple years. Anyone who thinks so is in effect admitting they were suckered, that they simply weren't paying attention or doing their due diligence as a citizen. This isn't suprising. Americans, as a whole, are not informed, and worse, don't care to be. Anti-intellectualism is championed, glorified. Good, straight, investigative journalism has been belittled, bashed, defunded, and run out while sensationalist, shallow, establishment, or opinion-based blather has become "meainstream news." People don't know civics or geography. On and on.

There have been a couple recent books come out on the subject, by Susan Jacoby and Rick Shenkman. I've not yet had the chance to read them, however.


Last edited by Generic Sobriquet on Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Generic Sobriquet



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh. Not Noam Chomsky; that was a separate point. Go back to my original post right after you started this proselytisation.

"Think for yourself." What a silly, hypocritical admonishment. To repeat: your wild accusations cloaked as questions have been answered, your bunk debunked. It's as readily availble as the evidence for evolution is to a creationist, and I'm equally as uninterested in teaching you. What's next, the moon landing? I'm done with this subject.
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic Sobriquet wrote:
Done with you on this subject.


Fine, however if anyone else picks up this thread, and you want to stick in your 2 cents, just keep Building 7 in mind. If you actually do look into it, it may come as a revelation to you....

;0)
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc, voodo,generic, and dominant,at least seem to of been thinking and were interested enough to post a reply even if no one seems to have come to the same conclusions...I am surprised however that only Hanni made any referance to the people being hurt. I am of the opinion that laws were made to protect humans and safeguard their rights, instead it seems that humans are now there to surve the laws, seems ass backward to me..I am really surprised that everyone seems to except the deaths and human suffering of inocent people as just part of the process..perhaps as the econemy gets worse and more people are personally effected they may start to realize what others are going through now.. well keep up asking questions, someone needs to.........Michael
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GUITARLAW wrote:
Doc, voodo,generic, and dominant,at least seem to of been thinking and were interested enough to post a reply even if no one seems to have come to the same conclusions...I am surprised however that only Hanni made any referance to the people being hurt. I am of the opinion that laws were made to protect humans and safeguard their rights, instead it seems that humans are now there to surve the laws, seems ass backward to me..I am really surprised that everyone seems to except the deaths and human suffering of inocent people as just part of the process..perhaps as the econemy gets worse and more people are personally effected they may start to realize what others are going through now.. well keep up asking questions, someone needs to.........Michael


I know it might seem that way.. but if no one had been hurt its doubtful that we would still be discussing these events. I just dont like to sound insincere.
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hanni



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 660
Location: germany

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodobop wrote:
GUITARLAW wrote:
Doc, voodo,generic, and dominant,at least seem to of been thinking and were interested enough to post a reply even if no one seems to have come to the same conclusions...I am surprised however that only Hanni made any referance to the people being hurt. I am of the opinion that laws were made to protect humans and safeguard their rights, instead it seems that humans are now there to surve the laws, seems ass backward to me..I am really surprised that everyone seems to except the deaths and human suffering of inocent people as just part of the process..perhaps as the econemy gets worse and more people are personally effected they may start to realize what others are going through now.. well keep up asking questions, someone needs to.........Michael


I know it might seem that way.. but if no one had been hurt its doubtful that we would still be discussing these events. I just dont like to sound insincere.


not all laws are right, and i don´t except the suffering of innocent people, if i watch news at the internet than i realise that our cultures are very very much different in politic and cultural life, this political voting is more interesting than all the others before, i´m watching ....... peace
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

accept*

Had to; too egregious. Wink
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is both a thread relevant educational video and a tribute to a fearless man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy4Tg_uR_Bg

*warning: avoid if you are offended by language
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