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Racial Debate
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc, I agree with your statement, a new book "disaster shock" by niomi klien shows how the money men use these diasters to make changes in their favor....but my question was why were chany and the oil companies dividing up irioc when 911 had not happened yet !!!!! what gave them the idea something was going to happen .... if your researce is looking for the smokeing gun so to speak on 911 than it seems this knowledge of oil companies and chany might show forknowledge of an event before it happened........michael
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DocDosco wrote:
GUITARLAW wrote:
Doc, I was wondering if in your info seaching if you have ever found any connection to 911 and the chany meetings with the oil companys that took place at the white house in secreat 2 months before 911.bush fought the realise of what took place at these meetings all the way to the sepreme court. I heard a referance to these meetings and it was stated that the oil companys decieded who was interested in iracs oil...seems kind of coveniant that so soon after this meeting 911 happens and now those oil companys are about to return to irac after sadam kicked them out and they did not even have to bid on the contracts, reminds me of halburtion getting so many contracts without bids....just seems odd 911 had not even happened and they were meeting to decied who would get the oil in irac....Michael


911 was beneficial to many groups for many reasons.

One of the main administration reasons for invading Iraq (not the war on terror, not WMD etc) was to boost and control oil prices. Big Oil knew if Iraq went off-line, it would raise the price of gas substantially (not lower it as the Neocons trumpeted). Now that gas is astronomical, Big Oil is now going back into the new US controlled Iraq to exploit their newly signed oil leases, and they will make a killing (no pun intended)

This new deal will just line the pockets of all the corrupt Iraqis that replaced Saddam and we'll all continue to get screwed at the pump.

4,000 Americans and 100,000 Iraqis died for higher gas prices.

Cute, huh?

This is a good read.

http://www.gregpalast.com/the-best-thing-in-the-world-for-big-oil/


Yeah and remember that if 4,000 US Soldiers have been killed in Iraq then there will also be 5 to 6 times that number that will be coming home with greivous injuries. That's just what happens in combat situations. We're talking the serious stuff like missing limbs etc, etc. So really we should add to that another 20,000 Americans and thier families who's lives will never be the same because of this war.

We should conspire together to make good things happen for everyone! Viva Obama!
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We're talking the serious stuff like missing limbs etc, etc. So really we should add to that another 20,000 Americans and thier families who's lives will never be the same because of this war.


This is no BS, I've seen it with my own eyes at Bethesda Naval Hospital. I never in my life expected to see soooo many young men without legs in wheel chairs. It's completely heart breaking because I know these guys will never get back as much as they gave for their country.
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:


Yeah and remember that if 4,000 US Soldiers have been killed in Iraq then there will also be 5 to 6 times that number that will be coming home with greivous injuries. That's just what happens in combat situations. We're talking the serious stuff like missing limbs etc, etc. So really we should add to that another 20,000 Americans and thier families who's lives will never be the same because of this war.

We should conspire together to make good things happen for everyone! Viva Obama!


I think that the Pentagon grossly under reports the number of our killed and wounded (not to mention Iraqi civilians killed) . I think if some investigative reporter checked it out, they would find the numbers are ficticious.

The jury is out on Obama. He claims he will vote with the administration and the chickshit Dems on canning the 4th ammendment (even lame Harry Ried is against this one)

So, if he can be that easily bought off, he is just another mouth in suit running for office to me....
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki,I am so proud of you....our young men are comeing home to find their homes being forclosed on, and it is a bitch for them to get follow-up medical care.walter reed is now being run by an ex halburtion excutive who started a company to take over hospitals and our leaders privitized them so they are no longer government run...this war has led to the highest suicide rate of any war do to the half ass way it was run...our vets desirve better but the horror stories from viet nam vets were just the same ,our leaders have never taken care of our men,the high ups get great care but the real solders get screwed....just once I would like to see these politicians get tried for their crimes....Michael
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GUITARLAW wrote:
at least the seprem court just said we still have the right to have guns

So, I gather your general position is that collective violence is wrong and heartbreaking, while private, individual violence is acceptable. Those victims don't deserve your outrage, apparently. Oh, and that you have no regard for or understanding of the actual, precedented meaning of the 2nd Amendment.


And by the way, Naomi Klein's latest book is actually titled The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Don't drag her or it into your nonsensical 9/11 conspiracy ramblings. She's far too good for that.
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DocDosco



Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic Sobriquet wrote:

So, I gather your general position is that collective violence is wrong and heartbreaking, while private, individual violence is acceptable. Those victims don't deserve your outrage, apparently. Oh, and that you have no regard for or understanding of the actual, precedented meaning of the 2nd Amendment.


And by the way, Naomi Klein's latest book is actually titled The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism. Don't drag her or it into your nonsensical 9/11 conspiracy ramblings. She's far too good for that.



Ha!

The brain dead speaks again.

So, smarty pants, if you won't tell us why Building 7 seven magically fell down, maybe you will educate us on the 2nd Amendment of the constitution (why we don't deserve to have it) and do tell us all about your outrage.....
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Last edited by DocDosco on Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic,thank you for the book title correction, yes she is worth reading..as for the guns it really does not matter how I interpert the amendment, the court decied that honest Americans do have a right to have a gun to protect their home and family.this does not make improper use lawful, it does not mean that children should hurt each other with them,the senseless deaths each year due to improper use of fire arms is a tragity and anyone provideing guns in an illegal manner should be procicuted...and if you think that takeing away guns from lawabideing people stops crime than read up on the countrys like england and japan where guns are very hard to get and see if that stops the criminals from getting them....and I have no problem with war and the terrable deaths caused by it if the war is acually just and not so some oil company or politician can get rich.shooting another person one to one or enmass is something that should be taken very seriously...and as for the theories that Doc talked of I do not have enough info to really decied what the truth is but I do know that I have no problem believeing that these people like bush and chany are capable of it and I think they would believe they were right in doing it.....Michael
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic,just so you are not mis interperting what I said; war is where army fights army,when these armies kill and torture inocent men women and children then they are like rabid animals to me,bin ladin and bush to me have and are killing inocent humans and I see no diffferance between them...they use the killing of inocent humans to further their goals...and as for the use of guns by lawabiding Americans I believe they have a right to protect their life and their families lives, and the honest Americans are the ones forced to go through the costly checks and waiting periods where as the others can by guns on most street corners.there also is the matter of freedom of information which the more we are forced to give the government more and more info the less and less freedoms we will have, some states now are trying to have gun owners pay a yearly fee for each gun they own and regester,maybe just another way to collect taxes or perhaps another way to know who has what....hope that helps...Michael
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, innocent civilians never get killed (in larger numbers than soldiers) when it's "army vs. army." Rolling Eyes

And war, when it's "army vs. army" isn't about furthering the goals of politicians and madmen. Rolling Eyes

And the soldiers who participate in those wars, well, they don't have friends or family and are deserving (as opposed to innocent) of being killed as so much fodder for the aforementioned governments and madmen. Rolling Eyes
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic, I am sorry that my words are misunderstood, I am not sure where you are comeing from but I have been in war and I have held truely great human beings as they died, I knew the families and I know the senseless loss, I also was in new york the week after 911 and saw what my family went through at the loss of a young man and what his family is still going through..I am outraged at the waste of our solders now dieing because of bushes war,and as far as I am concerned none of these wars need to be fought if our leaders had not been such fools, and the killing and tortureing of inocent humans is why I am angery now, both because of war and because our leaders fail to take care of the American people so they are forced to be ignorant and live in a enviroment that causes them to live way beneath their potential...I am sorry that you do not read what I say and understand my meaning. I am not attacking you personally so I am surprised at your statements....I do really believe that the cause of most of the American peoples suffering is directly caused by the poor leadership we have, I am positive that they do not respect each humans life and I can not fail to see that money is their motavation rather than makeing our lives better...I really wish you would open your mind for a moment and ask if there is the posiblity that things are not always as they seem on the surface...I am a war veteran and I am able to go to va hospital but I would rather die than enter one, I know to many who have suffered in them....so I am sorry you seem so angery but I think you do not read my posts as I meant them....Michael
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic, I do agree with you all the way that war is wrong,there is no good war, but the type of wars we are now fighting is the worse kind because there is no real army to fight and bush and bin ladin take out their anger on inocent humans.I have said over and over that both men should be tryed for crimes aginst humanity and I see no differance between them....and as for this irac war the American people are forced to pay for a war which was a lie to start with, when no weopens of mass distrution were found than chany tryed to lie to us and say sadom and bin ladin were working together, anyone with half a brain knows that they were enimies not partners..and as the saying goes " follow the money stupid " if you could ever actually get an accounting of where the money went you would find much of it went in the pockets of bushes friends...just like where did all the money go that was spent for kitrina, or homeland security..for five years the washington post reported on the thieft of tax payers money being spent by homeland security and I bet no one was prosecuted and was the trailer manufaturer that the katrina victumes were forced to live in and was found to have toxic cemicals which hurt the people wwas the manufaturer prosocuted, I doubt it,on and on the American people suffer so these politians can further their own agendas...I say to you agin all Americans no matter what race or religion, or natioality should get together and take back this government ....I respect your right to not believe Docs findings on 911 but I for one will not argue that it was not possible when over and over the fact is that the government has done things which was not right and much later we find out it is to late to make those responsible pay for their crimes....Michael
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GUITARLAW



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 425
Location: GERMANTOWN,NY

PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic, and if all that does not convice you of my words than the fact that my wife has not been allowed to see her children for eight and a half years and the fact that homeland security has cost me enough in fees and expenes that I could buy the super 400 gibson I want and we still are ordered to be separated for 3-5 years even though we have been married and liveing together for over four years, this government has forgotten what the word human rights means, this government has turned this country into a police state, this government has become just like the other governments our solders have fought in the past wars....our men are fighting and dieing because bush and chany are mad men and the farce of the hearings now to find who ordered the torture, like these congressmen for five years have not read or heard of what was takeing place under bush.our solders and great Americans but the leaders that direct them are fools.....Michael
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