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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunflower wrote:
lgiro wrote:
OK, I read it. interesting & fun questions raised. no real answers. i'm not on board with the notion of a conspiracy though.

what would be really interesting is to take a walk down that road a little further, and explain how a demolition crew would have done each step of the job on 3? huge buildings in 24X7 Manhattan without being observed/caught by the police and security. the CIA was in one of those buildings. can just anybody walk around in their offices willy nilly? i would like to see the conspiracy theory simulation of the job from start to final execution.

just my opinion but - implausible. i would say absurd, actually.

Oswald alone.
OBL and KSM alone.

i'm off for pizza and champagne. maybe i'll watch 3 days of the condor tonight.

Big thanks for reading it man ......
I feel that it's not necessary to imagine ways in which it could be done
It is necessary to have a proper investigation into 911 including Building 7
Wouldn't all you Americans want that ?
you guys spent more on investigating Clinton's sex drive ... literally


First, thanks Gorecki.....

I have run forums before and it is a lot of work. Everyone here appreciates your efforts I am sure. Usually this stuff works itself it out in the end.

... and Happy Fathers Day back atcha.

My kid forgot. But he did give me a hug and say 'I love you' for the XBox game I bought him after my gig today... so, it's OK.


More stuff to follow.


A lone gunman didn't sneak in the towers and wire it.

The demo charges were most likely put there by Larry Silverstein, the new owner when he bought the building a year before. He did massive 'renovations', especially on certain parts ... elevator shafts, the parking structure.

I believe Silverstein's original business plan was to take over the WTC , (which was loosing it's profitably, many of it's tenants were leaving and it was getting 'too old'), tear it down and build a new complex. Remember, he bought the WTC for 15 million down. The theory is he had all buildings wired before 911 because he knew it the attack was coming. A Bush family member owned the security company that oversaw all the new 'work' on the WTC. Bush might be a blithering moron, but his family members aren't.

Now let's follow the 'who benefits' from the WTC collapse. Silverstein made 7 billion dollars out of thin air. The administration had it's reason to invade the middle east, make a HUGE power grab, pass the Patriot Act etc. The Pentagon got a massive budget increase, but mainly destoyed the evidence on some major dirty dealings, and the paper trail on trillions in stolen money was blasted into the ether when the buldings fell.

This was manna from heaven for hard-liner's in Israel. It woke the 'sleeping giant' into military action of which they stood to benefit by having US forces invade the middle east. It is the kiss of death to blame Israel for anything here in the US, however there are war criminals there too. We don't have the only ones.

So.... there are people who believe that the Mossad was part of the plot. Operational mainly. However, they alone could not have pulled this off. This was hatched out of the Pentagon, and the top echelons of the CIA and the White House knew about it. The reason the planes got so far was, of course, that there were 'War Games' on that very day. The name of the war games was "terrorists hi-jack planes and fly them into buildings'. Well, that wasn't the real name, but that was the what the drill entailed.

Odd that the Pentagon should schedule war games of a terrorist hijacking on that very day and then order Norad and all our air defenses to stand down.

The guys at Norad thought it was a drill. It took over an hour before they figured out it was real.

Anyway, many people benefited and many people profited from 911. All that the Black Ops guys involved in this had to do was stage a hi-jacking, find some patsies to blame, and remote fly the planes into specific targets. They had highly placed people at the various levels (up to the top) involved, paving the way.

This was an intelligence operation. As I said before, 19 dopey Arabs terrorists couldn't have (and didn't) do this.

And we are left with Building 7. The glaring piece of 911 evidence that most everyone, even rational, intelligent, usually insightful people just overlook or dismiss.


Mystifying, isn't it???

If anyone is interested, a website did some homework on who benefited:

Top 20 Areas of 9-11 Profiteering

Here are my candidates for the top twenty profit flows resulting from or related to 9-11 and the response to 9-11:

**** # # # ****

Money Missing from the US Treasury

In fiscal 1999 and 2000, the Department of Defense (DOD) reported $3.3 trillion of undocumentable adjustments in the process of failing to produce audited financial statements. In the summer of 2001, the appropriations for DOD failed to report out of committee before the summer recess. The political tension between arms manufacturers and defense contractors who anticipated pay back from the Bush election victory and those pressing for federal spending and financing to conform to spending and securities law was resolved by 9-11.

The questions remain who has the $3.3 trillion plus missing from the US Treasury? what is the role of the NY Federal Reserve Bank and its members as depository for the US government and agent for the Exchange Stabilization Fund? and why are we proposing to cut back social security rather than getting these resources back?

Useful Link:

Where is the Money?

US Stock Market Pump & Dump Fraud

At the time of 9-11, federal and state enforcement leaders were facing a mountain of documentation that up to $6 trillion had been fraudulently skimmed out of pension funds and retail stock holdings through insider trading and other forms of corporate and banking financial fraud and securities law violations.

The events of 9-11 are alleged to have destroyed significant amounts of documentation related to investigations against Wall Street firms and leading New York Federal Reserve members. Subsequent to 9-11, enforcement bureaucracies attention shifted in response to the Patriot Act and a shift in budgetary resources away from policing white collar crime by corporate and banking leadership.

Useful Links:

Le Metropole Cafe

Sanders Research Associates

Scoop Media

From the Wilderness

No More Fake News

Tom Flocco

Federal Credit Arbitrage & Relaxed Monetary Policy

Financial institutions who have access to the federal credit can use such credit to raise deposits and savings from citizens, paying little or no interest, and then lend it back to the citizens at much higher interest rates through financing the US Treasury, mortgage agency securities or in relaxed lending policies which charge relatively expensive interest and fees. Hence, it is now a common fact pattern to find people in America earning 2% on their bank CD's while their neighbors are paying Citibank, JP Morgan Chase and the IRS 18% on their debt.

Subsequent to 9-11, these types of rich federal credit arbitrage profits appear to have skyrocketed as the facilitating ease in monetary policy was matched by extraordinary increases in government debt and easing in consumer debt policies and more industry favorable bankruptcy and lending laws. In short, 9-11 appears to have been used by Greenspan and the NY Federal Reserve to promote the back door liquidation of middle class equity through federal credit arbitrage.

This kind of manipulation allows sophisticated financial institutions to "put" their losses back to the government and the citizens in a "heads we win, tails we win" economic model which is hard for the non-financially literate citizen to understand.

Useful Links:

Le Metropole Cafe

Sanders Research Associates

US Military and Policing Deployment Globally

With important air cover from 9-11 and the 9-11 response, the flow of government contracts and economic activity is diminishing throughout the United States. That is because our military is being deployed abroad. As these government contracts and related economic flows move to Eurasia, the private equity pump and dumps move from onshore to offshore.

Useful Links:

Centre for Research on Globalization

From the Wilderness

UnAnswered Questions re: CSC DynCorp

Eagle Eye

DynCorp wins $1.75 global policing contract to support
US Department of State $6 billion contact support for civilian policing missions

Scoop Media

The American Tapeworm

Eurasian Oil & Gas/Afghanistan & Iraq War & Occupation

The 9-11 response has been used to justify increased military, political and covert support to ensure that American and European oil interests are protected in the Middle East and worldwide.

As part of the 9-11 response, the US has invaded and occupied two sovereign nations and, in the process, increased war profiteering, narcotics trafficking and organized crime flows in these areas.

Of particular concern is the necessity that the draft will be re-instituted after the Presidential election and global invasions will continue to subsidize the war profiteering business model.

This model is essentially one in which government pays all the expenses, the citizens give their lands, lives and limbs, and the economic benefits and private booty flow to a handful of private parties and their investors. When viewed by age group, it is a war on the young by the old.

See links above.

Insurance Industry Legislation

After 9-11, the insurance industry won important legislation that shifts significant risk from private investors to citizens.

Useful Link:

Under New Bill, Taxpayers to Underwrite Insurance Losses,307/709.html

Airline & Other Special Legislation

Additional legislation and special benefits were provided to the airline industries as well as other corporate and banking interests. Significant tax cuts would fit into this category.

Useful Link:

Tom Flocco

Increased National Security Appropriations

Budgets for the national security state increased across the board, including to support its control over domestic functions and to deploy globally both in space and on land.

Useful Link:

Sanders Research Associates

Commodity & Financial Market Manipulations

While allegations of insider trading on 9-11 have circulated in the press, there has been little comment on the extent to which the 9-11 response supported continued manipulation by the NY Federal Reserve and its member banks, including through the US Treasury Exchange Stabilization Fund, of the gold, silver, stock and other capital markets and the continued build up of private unregulated derivative positions.

Useful Links:

Le Metropole Cafe

Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

Is Silver Scandal on the Horizon?

Fund Raising for Trusts & Endowments

While not-for-profits raised a tremendous amount of donations as a result of 9-11, where the money went is a question. Was it used to respond to 9-11 or did it enrich endowments that were reinvested in corporate and bank stocks and the securities financing the profiteering?

Useful Link:

The Red Cross in the Cross Hairs?

Privatization and Redevelopment of the WTC

The World Trade Center was sold by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey with a transfer of mortgage shortly before 9-11. Understanding the economics of these transfers, the controls and economics of the losses and the potential profits of the redevelopment are essential to understanding what has happened. Also essential is understanding the various insurance and security company players who had access to the building and building specifications, information systems and archives and the law firms who represent them.

Useful Link:

Centre for Research on Globalization

Airport & Building Security Contracts

The increase in airport and building security and the centralizing control of it's outsourcing has contributed significantly to the costs of these facilities, who controls the facilities, flow of traffic and data and the profits flowing to selective parties providing these services. A look at the economics of the related insurance business and premiums is warranted. Analysis of the average time to move through the facilities of corporate travelers and their luggage versus non-corporate travelers and their luggage and who controls that differential and the related data will be instructive.

Useful Links:

Kroll claims 10,000 building security assignments after 9-11

Suppression of the Florida Media Recount & Black Box Voting

US media canceled the announcement of their recount of the Florida presidential election as a result of 9-11. Allegedly, this would have raised legitimate questions as to the Bush Administration's legitimacy.

After 9-11, the installation of computer voting systems for which there is no verifiable paper trail has accelerated. This increases the chances that Florida type events will increase. The companies doing the installation appear to be predominantly Republican owned and controlled.

Profits are generated both from installation of the system, as well from the benefits to those who can rig elections as a result. For example, it is worth estimating the extent to which rigging the Florida election impacted who got how much 9-11 profits.

Useful Links:

Major Media Suppress Recount Study of Florida Vote

Scoop Media's Black Box Voting Series

Patriot Act Consolidation of Banking & Money Laundering Market Share

The Patriot Act, available off the shelf at 9-11, was passed with little legislative access or discussion. It authorized extraordinary control of financial cash flows and data about financial cash flows. What is the value of controlling an estimated $500 billion- $1 trillion of annual US money laundering?

Retirement Benefit Privitization & Cutbacks

In the shift to a permanent war time economy, the alleged insolvency of the Pension Benefit Corporation, Social Security, the health care system and the credits behind the mortgage securities and other securitized consumer debt held in US pension funds and retirements savings has received short shrift financially and conversationally.

Corporate Media

It is essential to understand the impact of 9-11 and the 9-11 response to the market share and profits of corporate media and the linkages between investors in corporate media and in the corporations and banks that most benefited from the policies promoted by corporate media.

HAARP, Ocean, Space & Satellite Weaponry

Since 9-11, we have watched the role out of a significant amount of black budget technology. The intimate militarization of all planetary air, land, water and oceans and space with electromagnetic, laser, sonar and other invisible weaponry implies a zero privacy world for all living things. This is a world where our thoughts and feelings are not free of 24-7 interference and influence unless we wish to tunnel deep underground. Perhaps that is why the black budget is financing so many underground facilities.

Useful Link:

Dr. Nick Beglich on HARRP

Centre for Research on Globalization

From the Wilderness

Law Firms

Always telling, a review of what law firms are representing the parties profiting in all the other categories will say a great deal. Attorney client priveledge remains the primary railroad to protect the rich flow of organized crime profits behind national security law. Lawyers are often the channel for political campaign contributions and political lobbying as well.

Useful Links:

Open Secrets

The American Lawyer Law 100

9-11 and Enron

The crossover between the players involved in 9-11 profiteering and in Enron's rise, fall and clean-up are mystifying. There are linkages here that can offer important clues if we analyze them as related economic flows. One hypothesis is that Enron was being used by the NY Federal Reserve member banks as US Treasury depositories to launder some of the monies disappearing from the federal government.

Useful Link:

The Real Deal on Enron


Who has been promoted following 9-11? The salaries, stock options, health care and other perks of the key players both private and public are well worth reviewing carefully.

Useful Link:

They Let it Happen on Purpose
Doc Dosco

Doc's Peerless guitar website

Last edited by DocDosco on Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:17 am; edited 4 times in total
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 251
Location: LA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunflower wrote:

but then theres the molten iron

Yep. My girlfriend is a NY city coroner, and she worked ground zero collecting and identifying body parts.

She said the basement 'glowed' for 6 weeks.

She also said that there were body parts collected that were marked from the 'hi-jackers'. One day they simply disappeared from the on-site lab and no explanation was given.

I have no idea what that was all about, but it's just one more bit of strangeness.

Also, she told me she has asked people she knows ... police, fire etc. about building 7. She says they just shrug. No one was killed. It became unimportant......

Kind of boggles the mind.

BTW, I had a thought.

It may have been that the tower hit by the second plane, (which oddly fell first) was actually about to topple. The government experts are not total idiots. They have an agenda, but part of what they say is perhaps plausible. However it would have taken out 8 square blocks of Manhattan if it went down with that top piece falling off to the side. Guiliani even said "They have to pull it".

So, whether the collapse was imminent, or not, they 'pulled' the first tower. The other tower didn't come down until a bit later. It was not about to collapse, so they got as many people out as they could on short notice and then 'pulled' it.

Building 7 was where a lot of the dirty secrets that spawned this plot resided and was the operation center for the 911 plan. They simply evacuated Building 7 after setting it on fire, and then 'pulled' it.

And there it is.
Doc Dosco

Doc's Peerless guitar website
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Not to beat a dead horse, however this is a close-up video of building 7 when it started to collapse...

and the collapse (watch the charges go up the front)

I have looked at a lot of pictures and videos of both towers when they collapse too, and you can see the explosions going off. It so obvious that I am perplexed at why others won't accept it.

As you might have noticed, I am fascinated not only by how it was done, but the fact they got away with it. AND anyone who even brings it up in the media is ridiculed or ostracized. It is truly astounding. One of the biggest crimes of mass murder in history, with the hard evidence blatantly there for all to see, and not one politician or major newsman (even if they know privately) will acknowledge it publicly.

I talk to people that seem progressive, educated and insightful in all other areas, but they are blind to this. So called '911 Conspiracy' is a dirty word. It's like medieval thinking. The church commands you to believe the earth is the center of the universe. The media propaganda machine commands you not to entertain any view that 911 is not what you are told it is... or you will be not be taken seriously, and may be ridiculed, mocked or denounced as 'nut'.

People are now burned at the stake 'metaphorically' if they dispute the consensus reality, the one that has created the 19 'lone' high-jacker scenario and ingrained it so deeply in society that most people will will never see past the created myth to the truth.

I find just find the whole thing simply amazing.

I'll give this a rest now.

Doc Dosco

Doc's Peerless guitar website
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Generic Sobriquet

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good grief. Confused
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc, simply amazing is all we can say.sinse the great repub revolution and newt things have changed,polititions have always feed thier greed but now politics have become mean and ugly and the thefts are on an un dreamed scale...the American people are like a herd of cows being milked until wasted and is like the vidio a few years ago of the pallets of money in bagdad and people kept just walking into the room takeing bricks of money until all was gone...I always wondered what happens to all the huge amounts of money payed to the irs and social security from the illigal workers. so much theaft, just think if all that energy was actually spent on makeing this world better for all humans and I bet these crooks could still make huge proffits from doing good things...well thanks for all the info......Michael
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