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misfits and loners
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 416
Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: misfits and loners Reply with quote

Doctors should ask their teenage patients what type of music they prefer to determine if they are at risk of developing a mental illness or committing suicide, researchers say, according to The Sydney Morning Herald's article.

A study, published in Australasian Psychiatry journal, found that teens who listen to pop music are more likely to be struggling with their sexuality, those tuning in to rap or heavy metal could be having unprotected sex and drink-driving, and those who favour jazz are usually misfits and loners, prompting a call for doctors to include musical tastes as a diagnostic indicator in mental health assessments.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pick-your-angst--rap-metal-or-trance/2008/08/04/1217701950029.html


Well I thought this was funny....

Jens
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FlatFive



Joined: 10 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny and entirely true Embarassed
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Jake Hanlon



Joined: 11 Jul 2007
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Location: Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hahahaha

Or Heroin adicts
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAHAHA LMAO!
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MorganS



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must be a misfit and a loner...

Morgan
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greentone



Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you suppose that all musicians--not just jazz guitarists, not just guitarists--are misfits and loners? It seems to me that most artistic types are introspective folks. Except singers, of course! It takes a lot of extraverted chutzpah to stand up on stage with just your mike in your hand. Wink That flamboyance also makes you want to turn around and suggest that the band change keys to accomodate you, too.

Seriously, offstage even most shredders are dark and introverted, in my experience. Doesn't mean that musicians aren't happy, reasonably well adjusted folks--Just people who watch the party and write a song about it later.
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Hitdoggie



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate when Ph.D's get paid to publish these types of reports.

It is no doubt funny stuff...the one caveat is correlation data is not always indicative of causal results.

The kids who listened to jazz in my HS seemed to be the same ones who listened to broadway and did a lot of plays......not this kid!
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

• Waiting for voodobop to chime in.

• [tease]"Not this kid! I'm not gay!"[/tease]

• Yeah, I can't believe there are studies on human cognition and behaviour, either. Such a waste. Rolling Eyes

• Nope, I don't suppose that all musicians--not just jazz guitarists, not just guitarists--are misfits and loners. Often the opposite—conformist, social butterfly-ist, emulous of fame and popularity, attention-whorish—and get into it for just those reasons. This, especially, as concerns rock/pop/etc. musics. So, nor do I think most of them are genuinely "artistic" types either. But then again, I'm embittered and misanthropic. Wink

• Plug: The Blank Slate, by Steven Pinker.

• Oof, I'm hungry.
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
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Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Attempting to interpret scientific findings through a media news report is for me utterly useless. There is no way of knowing what methods were used in the study, what sort of of effect size was yielded or even what the statistical significance was. Who is it that even reads the manuscript and interprets it in the article?? that is something i dont keep up with. I wanted to say this earlier, but i thought people were having a good time so i didn't want to ruin it, and hopefully there already are many people who are aware that the best source of scientific findings is in peer-reviewed journals and on a more macro and accessible level in popular science books and essays written by legitimate scientists such as Steven Pinker (nice plug).

*honestly i think a social psychologist or sociologist or even anthropologist would be most apt to take on this subject not a psychiatry MD. There is very little about psychopathology actually being discussed, more personality.

Who categorized these personality types, how are they determined? Is someone given a personality inventory, then a mood scale and and then a survey of their music interests and then wala jazz=withdrawn. Correlation does not equal causation. Im only speculating however because i dont have access to the australiasian journal of psychiatry. Theres a confound already, What is a misfit loner is different across cultures.. particularly the quality and degree of behavior which constitutes being a "misfit".

I think anecdotally we all realize the oversimplification, of course we all know jazzers who are outgoing and high on life. In fact we could probably come up with a vast variety of micro personalities that exist within jazz, the shredder, the sensitive ballad guy, the world music fusion vegan guy, ect. ect.
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greentone



Joined: 31 May 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodobop wrote:
I think anecdotally we all realize the oversimplification, of course we all know jazzers who are outgoing and high on life. In fact we could probably come up with a vast variety of micro personalities that exist within jazz, the shredder, the sensitive ballad guy, the world music fusion vegan guy, ect. ect.


True, Voodobop, true.
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Hitdoggie



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic- I wasn't trying to trivialize cognitive studies. It is what I major in.

Voodo summed up I guess what I tried to say in one line. I understand this post might have been a joke, but every week these correlational studies come out and get huge media hype. How many pregnant women stopped drinking coffee due to the last study that was all over CNN for three days?

What is happiness? Subjective experiences are no doubt more accurately described by the person experiencing them, which is scary enough as our brain is the most sufficient insufficient device. Scales of subjective experiences seem even more funny. How do I know the love I feel for someone in my family is the same as the love you feel for apple pie when you are really hungry?


Voodo might know more than me on this if he is working in the field, but this trend of psychiatrists operating as psychologists is disturbing. The whole field is kind of wacky.

Call me gay again and your mom is mine. Joke Joke Joke.
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Tung



Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 203
Location: toronto

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitdoggie wrote:
I hate when Ph.D's get paid to publish these types of reports.

It is no doubt funny stuff...the one caveat is correlation data is not always indicative of causal results.



Totally agree with these Masters/PHDs thesis on these bullshit subject. This particular one is especially funny and it just perpetuate a stereotype IMO.
I find it funny personally, one must a bit messed up to think minor 2nds and a chord like F7b913 actually sounds good Laughing
Anybody ever read the book this musicologist wrote about a feminine cadence vs. masculine cadence? Can't remember her name right now. I thought the book was quite funny, the hypothesis was a big load of crap, but it's really big among feminist musicologists.
Anyway, cool thread, I'm going to be a misfit and loner and check out Kevvin Breit and Sisters Euclid tonight at the Oakville Jazz Fest tonite
Wink
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bejeeber



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Nashville, from Seattle and So.Cal

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same first knee jerk reaction which was "what a load of baloney. Funny baloney though". Cool

BUT, come to think of it, it looks like there could actually be some truth and accuracy to it.

Not that these types of music cause certain behaviours, but a music genre that a teen favors could give a therapist a quick hint (not a guarantee) of where they're at socially, so why not ask?


Last edited by bejeeber on Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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toddinjax



Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Misfits and loners... What's wrong with that? Take a good look at the world and the people living in it; would you want to "fit in"? Me neither!
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bejeeber wrote:
Not that these types of music cause behaviours....

You read the third paragraph, yeah? I mean, I don't put a great deal of stock into the article either, but they did at least acknowledge the (supposed) direction of the correlation.

Hitdoggie, actually, I meant it to characterise you as a homophobe. But yes, joking and teasing (I think).


Last edited by Generic Sobriquet on Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:20 pm; edited 2 times in total
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