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misfits and loners
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatest jazz combo ever?

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bejeeber



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Nashville, from Seattle and So.Cal

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generic Sobriquet wrote:

You read the third paragraph, yeah? I mean, I don't put a great deal of stock into the article either, but they did at least acknowledge the (supposed) direction of the correlation.


This 3rd paragraph?:

"There is no evidence to suggest that the type of music you listen to will cause you to commit suicide, but those who are vulnerable and at risk of committing suicide may be listening to certain types of music," the author of the study, Felicity Baker, said yesterday.

I guess I took that to mean suicidal types may choose certain types of music, not that it's the music that actually makes them suicidal. Is that how it comes acroos to you?

I still haven't read the whole article though. Too lazy. What do you expect from a fan of cool jazz ? Razz


Last edited by bejeeber on Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if the study recognizes that most teens' musical tastes are guided primarily by
1) the desire to fit in with their peers, and
2) the desire to alienate their parents

A teen who favors jazz is a misfit by definition, no? Also, how are they claiming a valid comparison between young fans of French Rap vs. [regular?] hip hop, since one would presumably be French (an American fan of French Rap could well be considered a misfit or loner I would think, whereas hip hop effectively fulfills goal 2 above), What does a control group look like? French Canadian? Is the relative "troublesomeness" of these kids measured by their parents' tolerance of same? against availability of aerosol paint products?

Makes me think of the "Baby Einstein" brand, which certainly will doom our kids to social ineptitude. Oh well, we want them to be bright enough to consider "alternatives" to the "theory" of evolution, right?
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffrey_Burr wrote:

Makes me think of the "Baby Einstein" brand, which certainly will doom our kids to social ineptitude. Oh well, we want them to be bright enough to consider "alternatives" to the "theory" of evolution, right?


I see your point but the real young Einstein, by all accounts, was quite the social butterfly, ladies man, and a rebel in his own way. He didn't quite fit the nerd stereotype until he was much older and became the old curmudgeon we all know and love. Laughing

Oh well so much for stereotypes Rolling Eyes

And as far as the theory of evolution goes, I don't know if most people are aware that ALL of the prehistoric so called human bones they've ever found would fit easily in the back of a small pickup truck. I'm a big fan of the Science channel (oh maybe I'm a nerd Embarassed ) and like Einstein himself the majority of theoretical physicists and scientists I see on there say that the more they discover the more they realize how little we really know about the Universe and how everything came into being. They say it also leads them to believe there must be a higher power somewhere behind it all. Seems they are very humbled by it all and that's probably a smart way to look at it, because there are still many many more questions than answers in this regard.
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surfrider



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 342
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JAZZ was the only thing that saved my sanity from the nonsensical scene when I was in high school in the mid-seventies to my divorce five years ago. and now the nut case world I see now during an election year. Besides, I always take these studies with a grain of salt.

Surf's up!
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jazzerchick



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 968
Location: SanAntonio , Tx

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd probably want to attempt suicide too if I had to listen to techno, trance ,
and medieval music. Better to be a loner and misfit! More practice time.
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:
And as far as the theory of evolution goes, I don't know if most people are aware that ALL of the prehistoric so called human bones they've ever found would fit easily in the back of a small pickup truck. I'm a big fan of the Science channel (oh maybe I'm a nerd Embarassed ) and like Einstein himself the majority of theoretical physicists and scientists I see on there say that the more they discover the more they realize how little we really know about the Universe and how everything came into being. They say it also leads them to believe there must be a higher power somewhere behind it all. Seems they are very humbled by it all and that's probably a smart way to look at it, because there are still many many more questions than answers in this regard.

B.fookin'S.
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trotsky



Joined: 24 May 2007
Posts: 438
Location: Sarnia Ontario Canada

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH Great!!!!
Now I have the Herbie the dentist song running through my head!!!!!!
"I am just such a misfit".....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwlOUAAyPQE&feature=related

Seriously though....
I hate to parade my cynicism, but for me being accused of being abnormal in this messed up world is kind of comforting. Wink Laughing


Last edited by trotsky on Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:
Jeffrey_Burr wrote:

Makes me think of the "Baby Einstein" brand, which certainly will doom our kids to social ineptitude. Oh well, we want them to be bright enough to consider "alternatives" to the "theory" of evolution, right?


I see your point but the real young Einstein, by all accounts, was quite the social butterfly, ladies man, and a rebel in his own way. He didn't quite fit the nerd stereotype until he was much older and became the old curmudgeon we all know and love. Laughing

Oh well so much for stereotypes Rolling Eyes

And as far as the theory of evolution goes, I don't know if most people are aware that ALL of the prehistoric so called human bones they've ever found would fit easily in the back of a small pickup truck. I'm a big fan of the Science channel (oh maybe I'm a nerd Embarassed ) and like Einstein himself the majority of theoretical physicists and scientists I see on there say that the more they discover the more they realize how little we really know about the Universe and how everything came into being. They say it also leads them to believe there must be a higher power somewhere behind it all. Seems they are very humbled by it all and that's probably a smart way to look at it, because there are still many many more questions than answers in this regard.


How does the fact that we still have a lot to understand about the universe provide evidence to or a need to settle on a very specific notion of having a higher power behind the cosmos? Im sorry, but thats just a terrible arguement to make. Science itself is not static and states no ultimate truths, even the laws of physics are subject to change which any good scientist knows. Creationism and a the idea of ahigher power in general leaves no true room for exploration, hence what seems to be your slightly negative attitude towards science, or specificially its capacity...And no the majority of physicists do not believe in a higher power.. though there are many that do it is far from a majority and actually the minority. And please dont mis interpret Einstein, the higher power or "God" he mentioned was the physical world.. he specificially had to go out of his way to rectify the misunderstanding.
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Hitdoggie



Joined: 27 Oct 2005
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phyrg...nice plug for creationism at the end of that statement. Try to be a little more covert next time! I don't agree with your beliefs, and I won't ask you to question them, but out of the blue like that?

I'm not even touching that argument.

Theology on a jazz guitar message board. I predict this goes down hill really fast.
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad, sorry.
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

voodobop wrote:
Phrygian Dominant wrote:
Jeffrey_Burr wrote:

Makes me think of the "Baby Einstein" brand, which certainly will doom our kids to social ineptitude. Oh well, we want them to be bright enough to consider "alternatives" to the "theory" of evolution, right?


I see your point but the real young Einstein, by all accounts, was quite the social butterfly, ladies man, and a rebel in his own way. He didn't quite fit the nerd stereotype until he was much older and became the old curmudgeon we all know and love. Laughing

Oh well so much for stereotypes Rolling Eyes

And as far as the theory of evolution goes, I don't know if most people are aware that ALL of the prehistoric so called human bones they've ever found would fit easily in the back of a small pickup truck. I'm a big fan of the Science channel (oh maybe I'm a nerd Embarassed ) and like Einstein himself the majority of theoretical physicists and scientists I see on there say that the more they discover the more they realize how little we really know about the Universe and how everything came into being. They say it also leads them to believe there must be a higher power somewhere behind it all. Seems they are very humbled by it all and that's probably a smart way to look at it, because there are still many many more questions than answers in this regard.


How does the fact that we still have a lot to understand about the universe provide evidence to or a need to settle on a very specific notion of having a higher power behind the cosmos? I'm sorry, but that's just a terrible arguement to make. Science itself is not static and states no ultimate truths, even the laws of physics are subject to change which any good scientist knows. Creationism and a the idea of ahigher power in general leaves no true room for exploration, hence what seems to be your slightly negative attitude towards science, or specificially its capacity...And no the majority of physicists do not believe in a higher power.. though there are many that do it is far from a majority and actually the minority. And please dont mis interpret Einstein, the higher power or "God" he mentioned was the physical world.. he specificially had to go out of his way to rectify the misunderstanding.


Actually you are wrong about me on all counts. First: I DO NOT have a negative attitude towards science. Quite the contrary I believe science is a valuable tool for us. To be clear seeking knowledge and wisdom are both excellent things in my book and the good book, if you've ever bothered to read it. Second: my faith in God is not based on or derived from the fact that science can not explain everything in the universe. You read that in to what I was saying but that's not at all what I meant to say. What I was saying is that a lot of physicists, great minds, etc who are on the cutting edge of scientific discoveries are quite humbled by how much there actually is to know and are quite realistic about how, in the big scheme of things, how little we actually do know about it all. For one example: It's been fairly recently discovered that all of the matter that we can see and measure is less than 10% of the matter in the universe. That means you and me, the chair you sit in, the trees outside your windows, all the way up to the stars and planets. They have discovered that 96% of the matter is missing and they call it "dark matter" and "dark energy" but science has no idea what it is. If that's not humbling for a physicist I don't know what is. They have no idea what it is but if they don't add it into their calculations then nothing adds up, the galaxies should all fly apart but they aren't. And again, please don't read anything into that statement other than what it says. As much as 97% of the universe is missing according to science! It has no weight, we can't see it or directly measure it except for it's gravity, but if they don't add this 96% unknown into ther calculations the laws of physics don't hold up.

From Wikipedia encyclopedia: Only about 4% of the total energy density in the universe (as inferred from gravitational effects) can be seen directly. About 22% is thought to be composed of dark matter. The remaining 74% is thought to consist of dark energy, an even stranger component, distributed diffusely in space.[2] Some hard-to-detect baryonic matter makes a contribution to dark matter but constitutes only a small portion.[3][4] Determining the nature of this missing mass is one of the most important problems in modern cosmology and particle physics. It has been noted that the names "dark matter" and "dark energy" serve mainly as expressions of human ignorance, much as the marking of early maps with "terra incognita."[2]

And just so your clear on where I'm coming from I personally hope that science is someday able to figure out what that other 96-97% of matter is. Further I don't see evolution as any threat to my faith. The fact that God made us and every other living thing able to multiply, grow, change, and adapt to it's changing environment as a good thing. As far as I'm concerned anything living that doesn't change and grow is dead. Unfortunately even most faithful Christian's don't understand the true nature of God and certainly, judging by your comments, you don't.

Anyway let me wrap this up (this is getting too long) God has proven to me that he is. That's right, I've seen signs and wonders that would make your hair stand straight up on your head. I'm talking about things that have happened to me, things he's shown me. Like me, you first have to come to him in faith and persevere in it before he shows you things like I've seen with my own eyes. But I've seen them and I'm glad I have. Yup God proved it to me in the physical world.

And just for the record I didn't start on this subject I was just commenting on a previous post and now I'm responding to your unkind comments towards me!
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cadence



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 285
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, where did the religion conversation come from.

Since you brought it up, yes scientists have no idea what dark matter is. And compared to how long the universe has been around, I think we are doing pretty well figuring things out, despite being slowed down by religion several times. If the history of the universe was compressed into one year's time, modern humans would have evolved at 11:58 on new year's eve, and the pyramids would have been built 11 seconds ago.

The universe is vast and no doubt it will take a long time to figure out, but considering how long we have been here, and how much of that time we have actually had the ability to study the universe, we are doing remarkably well. The fact that there are still unknowns does not prove or disprove religion - they are vastly different subjects.

edit: p.s. Religion does not need to be proved, as it is not a science and is based on faith. I could really go on and on about this so I will stop Laughing
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wikipedia is enough to convince me to bow out of this conversation.. we have different mind frames, we look for answers in different ways and different places, i dont want to hurt your feelings. You keep doing what your doing and ill keep doing what i do.
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Viper



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazz guitar
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