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americanprimer



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 10
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What Would Django Do?
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:
Unfortunately even most faithful Christian's don't understand the true nature of God....

But you do!

Typically deluded proselytisation. Hey, "good book" guy, have you ever "bothered to read" Matthew 6:5-6? I assert you're what your ilk call a "false witness."

First 9/11 conspiracy diatribes, now this. Rising superstition. Sign o' the times. Huzzah!


Last edited by Generic Sobriquet on Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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bejeeber



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Nashville, from Seattle and So.Cal

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazz geetar. Confused
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jazz Misfit, apparently?
[url]profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=183383426[/url]

Mingus, too.
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Viper



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charlie Christian
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:
voodobop wrote:
Phrygian Dominant wrote:
Jeffrey_Burr wrote:

Makes me think of the "Baby Einstein" brand, which certainly will doom our kids to social ineptitude. Oh well, we want them to be bright enough to consider "alternatives" to the "theory" of evolution, right?


I see your point but the real young Einstein, by all accounts, was quite the social butterfly, ladies man, and a rebel in his own way. He didn't quite fit the nerd stereotype until he was much older and became the old curmudgeon we all know and love. Laughing

Oh well so much for stereotypes Rolling Eyes

And as far as the theory of evolution goes, I don't know if most people are aware that ALL of the prehistoric so called human bones they've ever found would fit easily in the back of a small pickup truck. I'm a big fan of the Science channel (oh maybe I'm a nerd Embarassed ) and like Einstein himself the majority of theoretical physicists and scientists I see on there say that the more they discover the more they realize how little we really know about the Universe and how everything came into being. They say it also leads them to believe there must be a higher power somewhere behind it all. Seems they are very humbled by it all and that's probably a smart way to look at it, because there are still many many more questions than answers in this regard.


How does the fact that we still have a lot to understand about the universe provide evidence to or a need to settle on a very specific notion of having a higher power behind the cosmos? I'm sorry, but that's just a terrible arguement to make. Science itself is not static and states no ultimate truths, even the laws of physics are subject to change which any good scientist knows. Creationism and a the idea of ahigher power in general leaves no true room for exploration, hence what seems to be your slightly negative attitude towards science, or specificially its capacity...And no the majority of physicists do not believe in a higher power.. though there are many that do it is far from a majority and actually the minority. And please dont mis interpret Einstein, the higher power or "God" he mentioned was the physical world.. he specificially had to go out of his way to rectify the misunderstanding.


Actually you are wrong about me on all counts. First: I DO NOT have a negative attitude towards science. Quite the contrary I believe science is a valuable tool for us. To be clear seeking knowledge and wisdom are both excellent things in my book and the good book, if you've ever bothered to read it. Second: my faith in God is not based on or derived from the fact that science can not explain everything in the universe. You read that in to what I was saying but that's not at all what I meant to say. What I was saying is that a lot of physicists, great minds, etc who are on the cutting edge of scientific discoveries are quite humbled by how much there actually is to know and are quite realistic about how, in the big scheme of things, how little we actually do know about it all. For one example: It's been fairly recently discovered that all of the matter that we can see and measure is less than 10% of the matter in the universe. That means you and me, the chair you sit in, the trees outside your windows, all the way up to the stars and planets. They have discovered that 96% of the matter is missing and they call it "dark matter" and "dark energy" but science has no idea what it is. If that's not humbling for a physicist I don't know what is. They have no idea what it is but if they don't add it into their calculations then nothing adds up, the galaxies should all fly apart but they aren't. And again, please don't read anything into that statement other than what it says. As much as 97% of the universe is missing according to science! It has no weight, we can't see it or directly measure it except for it's gravity, but if they don't add this 96% unknown into ther calculations the laws of physics don't hold up.

From Wikipedia encyclopedia: Only about 4% of the total energy density in the universe (as inferred from gravitational effects) can be seen directly. About 22% is thought to be composed of dark matter. The remaining 74% is thought to consist of dark energy, an even stranger component, distributed diffusely in space.[2] Some hard-to-detect baryonic matter makes a contribution to dark matter but constitutes only a small portion.[3][4] Determining the nature of this missing mass is one of the most important problems in modern cosmology and particle physics. It has been noted that the names "dark matter" and "dark energy" serve mainly as expressions of human ignorance, much as the marking of early maps with "terra incognita."[2]

And just so your clear on where I'm coming from I personally hope that science is someday able to figure out what that other 96-97% of matter is. Further I don't see evolution as any threat to my faith. The fact that God made us and every other living thing able to multiply, grow, change, and adapt to it's changing environment as a good thing. As far as I'm concerned anything living that doesn't change and grow is dead. Unfortunately even most faithful Christian's don't understand the true nature of God and certainly, judging by your comments, you don't.

Anyway let me wrap this up (this is getting too long) God has proven to me that he is. That's right, I've seen signs and wonders that would make your hair stand straight up on your head. I'm talking about things that have happened to me, things he's shown me. Like me, you first have to come to him in faith and persevere in it before he shows you things like I've seen with my own eyes. But I've seen them and I'm glad I have. Yup God proved it to me in the physical world.

And just for the record I didn't start on this subject I was just commenting on a previous post and now I'm responding to your unkind comments towards me!



cadence wrote:

edit: p.s. Religion does not need to be proved, as it is not a science and is based on faith. I could really go on and on about this so I will stop



Well first off I'm not a very "religious" person just an extremely faithful one. Jesus said "have faith" not have religion. That may be hard for some to wrap their heads around at first so just understand that I have a lot of faith which is what counts to God.

And yes I agree God does not need to be proven; HE IS. Just like I don't need to be proven, I think therefore I AM. Whether or not you believe I exist I STILL DO, I still think, I still exist. But what so many unenlightened don't understand is that if you really, really do have FAITH (as opposed to just religion) God will prove it to you on an individual basis. I'm telling you the stuff I've seen (and am still seeing) would give you goose bumps!!!!!!! But you've got to seek him first and really have FAITH to your core!
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tonyteech



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Location: E London

PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:51 pm    Post subject: Response Reply with quote

I am going to come out of the closet here (no not that one ) and admit the first LP I bought at 16 with my first paycheck was gasp Dave Brubeck

I then bought a Bobby Timmons EP and and some Miles Davis and John Coltrane

Was I a misfit and lonter - No because I had friends who at 16 also listened to this stuff as well When we were 18 and could drink legally we went to jazz nights

But then I met people who liked classical and flamenco guitar and bought Sabicas records.
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mattwolfe3



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found another study today along the same lines, but with different results:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080905/lf_nm_life/britain_music_dc
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who's going to go participate?

http://peopleintomusic.com/
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, nevermind. I took the "study" and it's nothing but lyrics—really awful ones at that. Two sets, pick which you prefer. What the hell does that have to do with music? Please. Terrible setup.

(Not your fault, matt. Wink)
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mattwolfe3



Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 133
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Uh, nevermind. I took the "study" and it's nothing but lyrics—really awful ones at that. Two sets, pick which you prefer. What the hell does that have to do with music? Please. Terrible setup.

(Not your fault, matt. Wink)


Very Happy I didn't even really look at it until just now. I only read the article, and it made me question even more the reliability of these kinds of studies, one reason being that the results seemed to be quite different from the one initially posted here.

Just thought I'd share. Wink
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cadence wrote:
Since you brought it up, yes scientists have no idea what dark matter is. And compared to how long the universe has been around, I think we are doing pretty well figuring things out, despite being slowed down by religion several times.


Well cadence I get so tired of hearing about what some European monarch did way back in the dark ages. We all know that many of those monarchs were the result of generations of inbreeding and probably not right in the head anyway. Why do I always hear those arguments when it comes to a religion vs science discussion? It seems like people forget that many of the leading pioneers of science were men of faith including (but not limited to) Galileo, Sir Isaac Newton, and even Einstein himself.

There are well over 100 Christian colleges and universities in the United States alone that are affiliated with the Catholic church. So that doesn't even include the christian colleges affiliated with some other denomination. Some of them I know most people in the US have heard of (probably because of their sports programs, oh well Rolling Eyes ) like, Boston College, Villa nova, Holy Cross, Notre Dame, Xavier and the list goes on and on. If you think these Christian universities don't have programs that are on the cutting edge of teaching science and technology then frankly, you are wrong. They are NOT teaching that the world is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth Laughing . They are teaching Physics, Chemistry, Genetics, Medicine, Computer Science, Biology etc etc. And the people behind all of that teaching are men and women of deep religious faith. Then add to that all of the Catholic sponsored elementary, middle, and high schools around the country and the world and you begin to understand that, contrary to what uninformed people believe, most people of faith believe in EDUCATING people and that includes science, medicine, and technology. Further, judging by SAT and other standardized test scores and graduation rates those Christian schools are doing a much better job of educating overall than the public schools.

I realize that in recent times in the media you hear a lot about the "Christian right" and some of their views but the quiet truth is that they are in reality a minority of Christian people in this country. Also in my view they are being used by a political party for political gain.

I'm going to recommend a book that I think EVERYONE should read. It's called "The Laws of Thinking" and you can buy it in paperback on Amazon.com for $10 and some change. Don't be taken a back that the man who wrote it is a Christian Bishop just read it cover-to-cover and then THINK about it. Warning: it's not for the weak minded or simple minded person, it will challenge your way of thinking. You can also find it at many book stores now. The Laws of Thinking, read it and THINK!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+laws+of+thinking&x=16&y=20
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Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, why reopen this? Go proselytise somewheres else.
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tonyteech



Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 86
Location: E London

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Response Reply with quote

With respect my interest on this forum is jazzboxes not soapboxes Smile
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Phrygian Dominant



Joined: 14 Oct 2006
Posts: 583
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phrygian Dominant wrote:
cadence wrote:
Since you brought it up, yes scientists have no idea what dark matter is. And compared to how long the universe has been around, I think we are doing pretty well figuring things out, despite being slowed down by religion several times.


Well cadence I get so tired of hearing about what some European monarch did way back in the dark ages. We all know that many of those monarchs were the result of generations of inbreeding and probably not right in the head anyway. Why do I always hear those arguments when it comes to a religion vs science discussion? It seems like people forget that many of the leading pioneers of science were men of faith including (but not limited to) Galileo, Sir Isaac Newton, and even Einstein himself.

There are well over 100 Christian colleges and universities in the United States alone that are affiliated with the Catholic church. So that doesn't even include the christian colleges affiliated with some other denomination. Some of them I know most people in the US have heard of (probably because of their sports programs, oh well Rolling Eyes ) like, Boston College, Villa nova, Holy Cross, Notre Dame, Xavier and the list goes on and on. If you think these Christian universities don't have programs that are on the cutting edge of teaching science and technology then frankly, you are wrong. They are NOT teaching that the world is flat and that the Sun revolves around the Earth Laughing . They are teaching Physics, Chemistry, Genetics, Medicine, Computer Science, Biology etc etc. And the people behind all of that teaching are men and women of deep religious faith. Then add to that all of the Catholic sponsored elementary, middle, and high schools around the country and the world and you begin to understand that, contrary to what uninformed people believe, most people of faith believe in EDUCATING people and that includes science, medicine, and technology. Further, judging by SAT and other standardized test scores and graduation rates those Christian schools are doing a much better job of educating overall than the public schools.

I realize that in recent times in the media you hear a lot about the "Christian right" and some of their views but the quiet truth is that they are in reality a minority of Christian people in this country. Also in my view they are being used by a political party for political gain.

I'm going to recommend a book that I think EVERYONE should read. It's called "The Laws of Thinking" and you can buy it in paperback on Amazon.com for $10 and some change. Don't be taken a back that the man who wrote it is a Christian Bishop just read it cover-to-cover and then THINK about it. Warning: it's not for the weak minded or simple minded person, it will challenge your way of thinking. You can also find it at many book stores now. The Laws of Thinking, read it and THINK!

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+laws+of+thinking&x=16&y=20


Generic S. that's exactly the problem these days. That's how the veil of ignorance is being pulled over peoples eyes so they won't wake up. It's become so discouraged in our society if you dare mention politics, or economics. or God but those are some of the very things we really should be talking/thinking about. Instead everybody just wants to talk about the weather or other insignificant things. The stock market has fallen 400 points or more several times in the past few months and just the other day fell over 500 points. Then the very next day fell significantly again and nobody is really talking about it. Our U.S. currency is becoming worthless around the world and nobody is really talking about it. Some of the largest and most important companies, banks, and insurance companies in the U.S. are going under right before our eyes and nobody is really talking about it. Our real estate market is falling a part before our eyes and nobody is really talking about it. I saw Trump on TV not long ago saying it was so sad that all of the people buying the big expensive real estate in the U.S. now are from other countries; again nobody is really talking about it. Not to mention the skyrocketing gas prices and higher than normal inflation in our economy now. Could those things be signs that our government policies are taking us down a disastrous path? Not enough people seem to really be thinking seriously about that. Now the candidate in that same party picks a VP candidate who is a "small town" Governor who obviously is not qualified for the job yet (haven't we been down that path before - NOW)?

Funny that people in this country used to once fight and die for the right to talk about God or government. Funny how in Communist/totalitarian countries like China you can't talk freely about God or the government. That's by design to keep the people asleep and under control. Funny how much in the good 'Ole USA we seem to be becoming just like them in that regard.

I just mentioned a really eye opening and insightful book written by a very brilliant Phd that can change people lives for the better if they read it. I highly recommend it! Oh yeah, and it also happens to mention God. Well I am NOT apologizing for it buddy, not at all!
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