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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804
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 Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."
-- Oliver Wendell Homes
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:31 am Post subject: |
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Sure, unless you actually read the news and proposed (and more importantly, passed) legislation, rather than unquestioningly believing baseless hysteria and propaganda.
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:07 am Post subject: |
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Ah, now the qualifier: less than $250,000, as opposed to the blanket "we." Guess what, neither I, nor do I suspect most on this forum, or for that matter the country, fall below that $250K mark. And as I'm sure you would suspect, I'm in favor of a progressive income tax system.
Now, will there be an income tax hike below that within the next 4 years? I doubt it. Obama already switched from vowing to repeal Bush's rich man tax cuts to instead letting them expire after 2010. This man is not some liberal pinko progressive socialist lefty. He's a DLC-style, timid, corporate New Democrat. That should hearten the right, but instead they go wacko with irrationality and paranoia (to say the least) that he's some commie extremist. Silly. I wish he were a so-called progressive; he's not. He's only moved to the right since inauguration. Yadda yadda. So, if he's reluctant to return higher taxation to the upper classes, or genuinely crack down on Wall Street and big business, it seems unlikely to me that he would propose or approve an income tax hike below the $250K level.
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| lgiro wrote: | | Generic Sobriquet wrote: | | Funding the arts isn't even close to the kind of thing that would make the US "go broke." Not by a long shot. We're talking fractions of a percent of GDP, here, even with increases to ideal levels. Let's not exaggerate their impact relative to everything else that's f'ing up our economy. (Refrain: e.g., rampant deregulation, so-called "free" trade, and a voluntary, unnecessary war. But we needn't digress into that, I think everyone would agree.) |
i know, but isn't that kind of like saying that its OK to buy a new tailored suit, or go to Hawaii, when you're deep in debt, at significant risk of declaring bankruptcy, and havent saved a dime for retirement? it all adds up, in other words. |
Nope, my analogy would be that it's the new tailored suit, trip to Hawaii, and buying various electronic gadgets for your entertainment that got you into debt in the first place. It's telling your boss you would rather sacrifice a wage increase and/or expansion in benefits so he can give himself a raise (when he's already getting a 400:1 pay ratio) and a stuff himself a golden parachute. And so on. Now pretend you can take art classes, visit the museum, and go to jazz gigs and the orchestra for pennies a year, and you've got a more accurate sloppy analogy.
Or, to put it another way, trying to extrapolate how one person or family runs their life into a model or analogy for how the Federal Government does or should function is just plain silly.
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Fred_Murtz
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Have to admit I haven't read through this entire thread (did read the first couple pages).
I totally agree with supporting the arts and recommending live jazz when the opportunity presents itself. That's a great idea and easy to do.
Regarding playing background music for a corporation, some of the best paying gigs I've ever had were those I which I sat in the corner of a corporate board room playing chord solos on my guitar, while a room full of people had wine and cheese and totally ignored me (except for the occasional guitarist who happened to be there in the room). I look at those opportunities as paid practices.
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www.MasterGuitarists.com <--- I have some lessons here
www.myspace.com/ZamarGuitar <--- A bit of a bio here
www.youtube.com/profile?user=ZamarGeetar <--- free lesson videos here |
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Generic Sobriquet
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Right. In such an instance, one way to look at it is, "I sat off in my own little world off in a corner playing what the hell I liked, and these chumps paid me, boyee!" In which case, you could justify yourself as taking advantage of these schmucks while maintaining some sort of artistic integrity.
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that.
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ed norton
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 763
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| lgiro wrote: | | Generic Sobriquet wrote: | Right. In such an instance, one way to look at it is, "I sat off in my own little world off in a corner playing what the hell I liked, and these chumps paid me, boyee!" In which case, you could justify yourself as taking advantage of these schmucks while maintaining some sort of artistic integrity.
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that. |
you talk like a man who knows what he wants from music and gigging and such. me, i'm a part time hobbyist, or is it student? not much of a player after dropping it for 20 years. but am improving slowly.
do you gig where we can come see you play, or do you have some youtube vid to upload that we can watch? not calling you out, just curious after all this time and talk, thats all. |
GS said he doesn't do youtube, myspace ect..., I can't say I blame him. I thought he was your liberal alter ego Igiro, but apparantely not. He comes off abrasive , but many times I can relate to what he says.
Good to know you are well Igiro , we should have a health care debate in the chat section, that Obama is winning me over. see ya dude.  |
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riovine
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| Generic Sobriquet wrote: | Right. In such an instance, one way to look at it is, "I sat off in my own little world off in a corner playing what the hell I liked, and these chumps paid me, boyee!" In which case, you could justify yourself as taking advantage of these schmucks while maintaining some sort of artistic integrity.
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that. |
That's funny, I'm also a hobbyist, but have also played some very high paying gigs for corporate/country club/high end private parties type things. I would never have such contempt for the people who hire me to play jazz, pay me good money, and treat me great (there is usually a nice meal & drink as part of the deal, very friendly, cordial people etc), as to refer to them as "chumps" and "schmucks".
I am just amazed at such utter contempt for the people who butter your bread to do what you love doing. |
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Fred_Murtz
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| Generic Sobriquet wrote: |
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that. |
Guess that means there's one less guitarist competing for the gigs that aren't at Birdland.
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www.MasterGuitarists.com <--- I have some lessons here
www.myspace.com/ZamarGuitar <--- A bit of a bio here
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randalljazz
Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| Fred_Murtz wrote: | | Generic Sobriquet wrote: |
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that. |
Guess that means there's one less guitarist competing for the gigs that aren't at Birdland. |
nice playing, david. |
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ed norton
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 763
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:00 am Post subject: |
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I've watched a couple Ted Greene dinner gig videos where people are chatting away and not paying attention. I suspect something about his personality made him prefer it like that. He seemed a bit nervous and all the clammering made him just focus on the music and not the audience. I think the place was called "Duke's" in Malibu.
....If you guys have gigs take it. Some people are not gonna pay attention, but so what. Nothing wrong with having contempt for them either, I mean they are miserable douchebags. If someone can listen to Ted Greene and think of it as backround for there stupid stories from a recent sales convention, then they have serious problems with recognizing and respecting art. |
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dewey decibel
Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Generic Sobriquet wrote: | Right. In such an instance, one way to look at it is, "I sat off in my own little world off in a corner playing what the hell I liked, and these chumps paid me, boyee!" In which case, you could justify yourself as taking advantage of these schmucks while maintaining some sort of artistic integrity.
If that's your thing, then OK, what can I say. Straight cash, homie. But I would still feel ill in my gut for doing something like that. |
I have to agree with this point of view. Now don't get me wrong, I don't fault anyone that does this. I'm not slighting you guys, if you can live with yourself great, more power to you. And I have had some really enjoyable gigs like this, where people did dig what was going on. But the majority of them are miserable, and I can't sleep when I get home, and they make me feel like sh!t. I don't care if I made $500-1k that night, it's not worth it. In fact making that much money adds to the ill feeling.
| Quote: | That's funny, I'm also a hobbyist, but have also played some very high paying gigs for corporate/country club/high end private parties type things. I would never have such contempt for the people who hire me to play jazz, pay me good money, and treat me great (there is usually a nice meal & drink as part of the deal, very friendly, cordial people etc), as to refer to them as "chumps" and "schmucks".
I am just amazed at such utter contempt for the people who butter your bread to do what you love doing. |
Because they're not hiring you for you, or the quality of your music, they're hiring an aesthetic. It's all BS. And it should be treated as such. All this means (as I said earlier) who ever is the best self promoter gets the gig. All this stuff that a lot of you guys seem to be against- American Idol, MTV, style over substance, music as fashion, Guitar Hero- well you're contributing to it. Go to one of these gigs wearing faded jeans and a pointy guitar and see if you get hired again, no matter how good you play. You admit that you're just a hobbyist, if you show up wearing a jacket with an archtop guitar that's going to be enough for most people. Doesn't matter how good/bad you are, that's all it takes to "sell" it. Doesn't that bother you just a little?
The only way I can get through that sh!t is by thinking of them as chumps, and smiling when they tell me about Frank Sinatra or Maynard Ferguson or some other BS. And every now and then you get folks that really do know what's going on, and it's great. Or even if the don't they'll talk to you sincerely, and that's great as well. I actually like playing for people that don't know jazz, as they'll give you great insights. But it's rare, most people try and BS you, which is just insulting. Especially after they've had a couple drinks. |
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ingeneri
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by ingeneri on Wed May 19, 2010 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PaulD
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Posts: 1130
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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So let me get this straight… if I am ever asked by my company to recommend live music for some event, I should reply “anything but jazz, because we wouldn’t want to offend the musicians by giving them work and in turn sleepless nights & upset stomachs”? I just wish a schmucky chump like me was intellectual enough to understand all this...  |
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ingeneri
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 441
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| Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by ingeneri on Wed May 19, 2010 3:52 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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