PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum
Jazz Guitar Discussion
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

What the hell - the epi es 175
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> Guitars, Amps & Gizmos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Secret2goodtoneispractice



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Spinning & shimmering aqueous sphere

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, there was some discussion. The important part follows: If you find a guitar that inspires you, plays well, sounds good, and is affordable according to your circumstance, then buy it. Trust yourself. Enjoy it for many years while making music!

This idea is valid for all people, worldwide.
_________________
Beware of alliances that are formed by dividing relationships of others.
.
Trust your own opinion of a guitar or amp. Form your opinion from what you value. Your need, preference, circumstance, experience, and opportunity are the most important factors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secret2goodtoneispractice wrote:
Yes, there was some discussion. The important part follows: If you find a guitar that inspires you, plays well, sounds good, and is affordable according to your circumstance, then buy it. Trust yourself. Enjoy it for many years while making music!

This idea is valid for all people, worldwide.


<sigh> You're doing it again - attempting to speak for ALL PEOPLE. Don't you get it ? We speak for ourselves, that's the entire concept of a forum.

You do not speak for me, you do not speak for any member of my family, any friend, any casual acquaintance of mine, my congressperson, my dentist or my garbage collector. You don't speak for my dog or my neighbor or for my high-school girlfriend - you don't KNOW them, you don't know what they like and what they dislike, you have no knowledge of their education and life experience.

You possess neither qualifications nor permission to speak for those who are able to think for themselves and express their own opinions. (We don't NEED any more people who speak for others, we've enough politicians who claim to do exactly that and are demonstrably deficient at it.) If my history lessons were learned well, there have been a few wars because a few people wanted to speak for all people Smile

To those of us who make up our own minds, your entire assumption should be offensive. Anyone with a scrap of intelligence, personal taste and independance has no need for a "spokesman" (especially one who has demonstrated no particular attributes other than the ability to find a "bargain"). I wonder if you attempt to "speak" for your wife, LOL !

I have no argument with your first paragraph, it's admirable. I would modify it with this slight addition:

If you find a guitar that inspires you, plays well, sounds good, and is affordable according to your circumstance, then buy it. If you make an informed choice, you can even derive financial benefit simply by owning a wonderful instrument that is an important part of our musical history.

Planetguy: no, you won't go to hell because you bought an Asian guitar - that's the entire insidious proposition: that there is no downside to YOU other than perhaps an ill-advised financial decision. But your financial decision impacts all of us, that's the crux of the Walmart problem.

Children all over the world have striven to learn English for the past fifty years or so, they admire our standard of living, our technology, our ambition. They wanted to be like us. There is a possibility, in the future, that OUR children will be learning to speak a Chinese dialect for similar reasons.

I don't know if any of you are concerned with pollution, the global warming issue, past disposal of hazardous waste, there are any number of problems that inspire people to become motivated concerning them. Call it social conscience or call it concern with what has been done to the world our children will inherit.

The economic situation should be regarded in exactly the same way: we are making decisions for those who cannot make them, including generations of yet-to-be-born people. OK, off the soap box, sorry to get so far afield of the subject but all of these things are intertwined to me.

Edit to add: I frequently compare the physics/astronomy term "entropy" to our current economic situation. Entropy is the process whereby energy levels throughout the universe are becoming equal: hot particles are cooling, cooler particles are warming. At some point all will be at the same temperature. That's not opinion, that's fact.

Enter China as a dominant economic power ... Chinese standards of living rise dramically while American standards of living decline - why not, we're paying for this to happen. At some point when our disposable income has been spent on Chinese goods, the Chinese standard of living will be equal to the American standard of living. For the Chinese to have a good standard of living is inarguable.

BUT for me and my family to have a lower standard of living is unacceptable if there is anything that I can do about it, be assured that I will. I "vote" for my standard of living with my checkbook and I speak out against economic entropy at every opportunity. I suppose the chances of me affecting our financial destiny are about the same as me influencing entropy. But I have to try !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
planetguy



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But your financial decision impacts all of us, that's the crux of the Walmart problem.


well, pretty much every decision everyone makes has an impact on others....here AND abroad.

where we diverge paths is you see my buying an asian gtr as leading to the decline of western culture and to the fall of the western empire.

obviously i do not.

as for our children and grandchildren learning to speak chinese, or any other language that allows them to communicate w others, i don't see that as a bad thing.

.....i would hope they can first learn to speak english properly as this seems so challenging for so many.

if i can borrow your soapbox for a sec, as i see it too many folks have a myopic foxhole attitude about preserving THEIR values, THEIR culture, THEIR standard of living, etc. (not suggesting you feel this way, randy)

as i said above...the world is a smaller place and it becomes smaller everyday. if we're to believe in a fair market system then it makes no sense to draw the line at our country's, state's, or city's borders.

now, down from that soapbox before i get a nosebleed from the altitude.
_________________
just groove baby!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

planetguy wrote:
Quote:
But your financial decision impacts all of us, that's the crux of the Walmart problem.


well, pretty much every decision everyone makes has an impact on others....here AND abroad.

where we diverge paths is you see my buying an asian gtr as leading to the decline of western culture and to the fall of the western empire.

obviously i do not.

as for our children and grandchildren learning to speak chinese, or any other language that allows them to communicate w others, i don't see that as a bad thing.

.....i would hope they can first learn to speak english properly as this seems so challenging for so many.

if i can borrow your soapbox for a sec, as i see it too many folks have a myopic foxhole attitude about preserving THEIR values, THEIR culture, THEIR standard of living, etc. (not suggesting you feel this way, randy)

as i said above...the world is a smaller place and it becomes smaller everyday. if we're to believe in a fair market system then it makes no sense to draw the line at our country's, state's, or city's borders.

now, down from that soapbox before i get a nosebleed from the altitude.


You make it sound as if it's a paranoid attitude to want to preserve a way of life ... has it escaped everyone's notice that our unemployment rate exceeds ten percent and that the following industries have disappeared or are in the process of disappearing from the United States:

steel manufacturing
machine tools
almost ALL aircraft manufacturers
shipbuilding
logging
textile manufacturing
automobile manufacturing (starting to die)
semiconductor manufacturing
some basic food production and processing
many more than my chemo-crippled brain can recall

No, our economic downfall won't be caused by your purchase of a Chinese guitar, it will be caused by the ATTITUDE that motivated your purchase. The attitude that suggested the purchase of Japanese steel and Korean cloth, Nike athletic shoes from Vietnam and semiconductors from Mayaysia and Indonesia, machine tools from China and Japan, automobiles from Japan, Korea and SOON from China.

I worked for "Space Systems" at one point in my long career and I recall when we used to build spacecraft for the Chinese and launch them for the Chinese. Guess what? We don't DO THAT anymore - they do it themselves and after a while you can bet that they'll be doing it for US!

That's real cute, the part about encouraging the kids to speak Chinese after learning English. But, it is - intentionally or not - misleading ... This is not One Big Warm Fuzzy World Where We Can Get Along If We Try. The childish naivete and political inadeptness of my fellow citizens astounds me constantly. Believe this: the average Chinese worker does NOT think the way you think. He is determined to eat your lunch and you're not only allowing him to do it, you're PAYING him to do it Smile

Failure to recognize that this country is in decline assures that the way of life that we have enjoyed will not be possible for those that follow us. I'm no radical America-Firster with the "foxhole attitude" you describe. I'm a card-carrying Liberal Democrat with a capital "L" who happens to recognize in the last few years of my life that we have taken a false turn - many false turns, actually.

Are you old enough to remember the old slogan: "What's Good For General Motors Is Good For America"? Back in the day, my friends and I laughed derisively at that. We assumed that there could be no possible connection between the benefit of the shareholders of GM and US ! Corporate bottom line profit does not insure that you and I have a better life, does it?

UNLESS the corporation disappears, what about that little problem?

Job losses from the failing company, supporting industries also close or lay off employees, mortgages are unpaid, homes repossessed - oops no property taxes collected. Banks and mortgage companies start to lose income - doctors, dentists, shoemakers and Indian chiefs are affected. Maybe even lawyers. Community services must still be performed, who makes up the deficit from the lack of property taxes?

Groceries have to be cut in households without employment, people need to survive so they apply for welfare, food stamps and so forth. No medical insurance so the kids have to go to the emergency room for flu treatment - health care costs increase and so do insurance premiums. Who pays?

Politically inexpedient, taxes are not increased so libraries, work programs even SCHOOLS close. The teachers and employees are out on the street and have the same economic problems as the auto company assembly line worker.

Roads don't get repaired, transport companies replace tires more frequently, perform maintenance more often. Shipping costs increase and get passed along to the consumer.

Manufacturers (employers) that have raw material cost increases and who are mandated to pay insurance costs become less competitive. They have to cut costs so they buy cheaper material from Asia, export jobs to India and lay off the workers that have been loyal to the corporation, perhaps since they were employed out of high school ...

Everyone is suffering from the diminishment of standard of living, pennies have to be pinched and we go to Walmart .... to save money, right? Local small businesses collapse because they are underpriced by Chinese imports, distributed by Walmart (Musician's "Friend") and the like. And the way that capitalism and markets function is by competition - if there is little or no competition then prices can be whatever the controlling interest dictates.

Get the impression that there is a feedback mechanism at work in this process ?

None of this affects me personally, I retired at 55, I'm financially comfortable, no bills, no mortgage, no expenses other than food/clothing/utilities, Medicare takes care of my wife's and my medical problem and we'll leave behind sufficient assets for our children to insure that they get a great start in their lives after they finish their educations, educations that have been paid for already.

I don't have a horse in this race and my attitude generally is not anger or frustration at Asians, heck I applaud them for their ingenuity, work ethic and the strategy that is milking the largest industrial giant in history of its ability to produce anything other than McDonalds counter clerks. I'm not even "patriotic" by any normal definition (other than being an infantry sergeant, 1st Cav Division, 4th Infantry Division, way back when).

My frustration and anger result from the attitude of the people that are allowing this to happen: the average American ... the American that thinks the world rotates around us and that it always will. The American that is currently employed and comfortable and who does not have the courage to acknowledge that his comfort is TRANSIENT and do something about the future.

Claiming that buying a Chinese guitar is not hurting anyone may be true but look around the rest of your house and then tell me that. And BTW, that's what EVERYONE thinks: "buying a pair of socks from Korea certainly doesn't affect anything that would concern me".

Darwin DID get it right ... we can even apply his principles to social demographics. A nation and a people that don't recognize and oppose threats to their economic existence really should become a province of China. Or Brazil, or Japan, or whatever country currently owns our treasury debt. I lose track of them after a while.


Last edited by randyc on Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Generic Sobriquet



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 804

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

planetguy wrote:
if we're to believe in a fair market system

And that's the fundamental fallacy and delusion. It is not a fair market, and there is not fair trade. There's this big, stupid lie out there, propagated by the mainstream, corporate media, and I would assume believed by yourself, that those who oppose so called "free trade," the fallaciously labeled "anti-globalisation movement," are a bunch of economic isolationists—autarky is the term. No, the overwhelming majority of us are not autarkists (right wing wack jobs and Pat Buchanan may be). People of our general view are the ideological descendants of the first internationalists—the international labour solidarity movement. We don't oppose "free trade" with the only alternative being "no trade," as you and the corporate establishment would falsely characterise. Again, that's an imposed false choice. Logical fallacy. Disingenuousness and dishonesty. No, we oppose so-called free trade policies in favour of "fair trade." It's in the lexicon. It means something. Read up.

Trade is fine; good even. Corporate imperialism is not. We're not the protectionists. These trade "agreements," essentially written by multinational corporations, contain little more than a bunch of corporate protectionism. Corporations can run neoliberalist roughshod over the world with impunity, protected from not only people, but government opposition.

http://www.citizen.org/trade/
_________________
lll
ll
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
wow.

so when it comes to carved instruments, do we think there is a less pricey alternative to Gibson, or custom luthiers for that matter? (i think that custom lutherie is the best, or can be).


That may be a great choice for many. For what it's worth, I LIKE mass-produced articles of good quality. I LIKE the concept of a lifetime warranty - if I'm a sniveling whiner complaining about a crack in my nitro (not polyurethane) finish, I WANT someone to care enough about my complaint to send me a new guitar. And pay for the shipping costs.

I don't want to concern myself about whether support is available once the original builder is dead. I want continuity and history in the things that I own. I like looking at the fifty and sixty year old photographs of the people that inspired me to play jazz, holding or playing an instrument like one that I own.

I BOUGHT these instruments for that reason - I wanted to play like those guys and once I thought that it was possible. That was never possible, I was delusional about my talent. But I wanted to give myself that one small advantage that IS possible, which is to own a guitar that - at least - makes me SOUND the same as the musicians that I admire.

I love every guitar that I own (except for one) … holding each one, when I dust, wax and polish them in turn each week, brings back certain memories - not necessarily memories associated with ME playing the instrument but memories of something that is pleasant, inspiring, meaningful, fulfilling.

And when I pick up the L-5, I just don't have the words to express THAT feeling.

I have many interests, many different preoccupations that encourage (or require) the expenditure of time and resources. (e.g. I own four trap/skeet shotguns that cost WAY more than 99% of the guitars that we talk about here!) NONE of my possessions and interests have repaid me with the satisfaction that holding the L-5 brings. Perhaps I have obsessed overmuch about that particular model for overlong but - for me - it was, is and always will be, the pinnacle instrument of jazz guitar.

Incidentally, Gibson is not my business/quality model for production American guitars, Carvin would be closer to my ideal. But I didn't grow up with Carvin guitars, don't "know" the musicians that played them and it's my impression that they are suitable mostly for a form of music that I no longer play. (My Carvin DC-150, bought new in 1979 - I think - got LOTS of mileage put on it, twenty - thirty years back!)

Cheers,
randyc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
planetguy



Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Incidentally, Gibson is not my business/quality model for production American guitars, Carvin would be closer to my ideal. But I didn't grow up with Carvin guitars, don't "know" the musicians that played them and it's my impression that they are suitable mostly for a form of music that I no longer play. (My Carvin DC-150, bought new in 1979 - I think - got LOTS of mileage put on it, twenty - thirty years back!)


CARVIN...now THERE'S something we can agree on!

count me a fan.

in fact i'm "winding down from the gig" presently where our sax man who also doubles on gtr was playing his CARVIN tele...forget the model but it's the neck thru model...very, very nice. and tonight i returned his Carvin NOMAD amp that he'd been letting me borrow for awhile hoping i might buy it from him. alright amp for what it is but nothing i really need right now.

oh yeah, and we were using my CARVIN powered mixer.

i've been using CARVIN stuff for yrs...well maybe not as long as you. a 1979 DC 150...wow, that must be a cool old player!

my first six string bass was a CARVIN and for yrs i gigged w their PRO BASS 500 head ...an excellent amp for the money.
_________________
just groove baby!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
i wouldn't worry about the custom builder passing away, especially if he's a good one. as long as you know of another who can do solid restoration work (there are more good custom luthiers popping up every year, BTW. some of them do restoration work. also, there are some very good repairman in some cities.)


I guess I'm missing something because I can't envision any of these people repairing a guitar made by someone else - perhaps a competitor - for no cost? (That ws my point regarding Gibson.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jazz Playa



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
wow.

so when it comes to carved instruments, do we think there is a less pricey alternative to Gibson?


YES!!! There definitely are alternatives now and you know this because some of them have been discussed many times on this forum. I was gonna stay out of this discussion because these types of discussions generally bore me. However that comment of yours just infuriated me because its so patently untrue and furthermore you must know that it is. There are other carved instruments out there that are of fine quality today that happen to also be a fraction of the price of comparable Gibson's. From reading some of your comments I get the feeling that just because those guitar's don't cost as much as a comparable Gibson or have a certain name on them that you wouldn't even seriously give them their due. Well that's a problem in your own head and has nothing to do with the reality that they are in fact fine instruments. I gather that the fact these other guitars are getting rave reviews in the jazz community including from many seasoned players who also play L5's and other similar carved instruments has totally gone over your head too. Those players can also afford to purchase any guitar they want to and still they have enough integrity to acknowledge the truth.

Truth is there are other fine carved instruments out there that are on par with some of the brands you love to mention and also happen to be a fraction of the cost. Like it or not Igiro that's the truth. Might as well face reality, like it or not, and just acknowledge the truth.

Now I'm not bashing any makers here. Its a free country so anybody can play the guitar that they wanna play, I'm all in favor of that. Still I think some people need to face the reality that times have changed and today there are fine carved instruments being produced that are also a fraction of the price as in the past. (had to say it that one more time at the risk of sounding redundant). Also there is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

I just happen to be more of the school of thought of the guy in this video I'm posting. That today there are a lot of guitar's out there that sound and play great. Also I get the vast majority of my enjoyment from from learning and playing as well as I possibly can rather than from the name on the headstock. I think most people will be happier in the long run if they focus their energies there rather than thinking a certain guitar will make them a great player. Yes so form your own opinion of guitars and play what you like just realize it doesn't take any one particular guitar to play and sound great. Most importantly it takes the skill, heart, touch, inspiration and imagination of the player: Click here to see and hear proof....................... ... And one more video
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Secret2goodtoneispractice



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Spinning & shimmering aqueous sphere

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, Igiro,

Here's a little list of luthiers stated just for you: Anderson, Benedetto, Buscarino, Campellone, Comins, Foster, Lacey, Lucca, Manzer, Mapson, Megas, Moll, Mortoro, Napolitano, Ribbecke, Sand, Unger, Zeidler, & Zimnicki.

To reiterate a previous point, applying to any and all guitars, regardless of price range: If you find a guitar that inspires you, plays well, sounds good, and is affordable according to your circumstance, then buy it. Trust yourself. Enjoy it for many years while making music!

This idea is valid for all people, worldwide.

Now for the disclaimers:

1) I speak for no person other than myself.

2) The opinion is solely that of s2gtip.

3) No claim is made for the purity of US content of any listed luthier's genetic background and composition; origin of their ideas and techniques employed in crafting archtops; origin of any materials they use in crafting guitars; origins of any music or musical ideas played on these guitars.

4) Attacks and diatribes from readers of differing views, especially those stemming of from lack of manners and compassion, may occur from the mere existence of this post, or one like it. Any person that chooses to use a luthier, or guitar from any company, that is not of pure US origin, risks such attack. Any person that chooses to talk about same, risks such attack. No encouragement is given to any forum member, to speak or behave in a way that could be deemed as offensive to any reader here.

5) The opinion stated in this post was not constructed to evoke wrath of the world, or even a single poster. The opinion was stated in such a manner to avert such attack, with hope of saying the exactly the right thing, in exactly the right way.

6) Advance apology is extended to any and all parties for any possible offense created by the post. May you find a way to have a nice day!

7) This disclaimer applies only to the post above.
_________________
Beware of alliances that are formed by dividing relationships of others.
.
Trust your own opinion of a guitar or amp. Form your opinion from what you value. Your need, preference, circumstance, experience, and opportunity are the most important factors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cute: passive-aggressive style (lacking in subtlety), I give it an "7" for motivation. Could have scored a "9" except for obtusity and inability to stay on subject. (That happens, though, when one attempts to mix fact, fiction and retribution.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Secret2goodtoneispractice



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Spinning & shimmering aqueous sphere

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randyc wrote:
Very (wHaTeveR). . .


Why, thank you, sir. I have truly enjoyed all of you high standard archtop diatribes, especially given that archtop craft was adapted from European voilin making, and refined by immigrants in the US.

Since this is an international forum I also appreciate your practice of supporting the world economy in action, if not words. I truly enjoy your other forum thread on the Fender Champ . . . especially the photo of all your assembled refinement parts with no US content. Three cheers for intellectual idiocy clothed in hypocrisy!


_________________
Beware of alliances that are formed by dividing relationships of others.
.
Trust your own opinion of a guitar or amp. Form your opinion from what you value. Your need, preference, circumstance, experience, and opportunity are the most important factors.


Last edited by Secret2goodtoneispractice on Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Secret2goodtoneispractice



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Spinning & shimmering aqueous sphere

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
the question was - is there a 17-inch, carved top model that costs less than a Gibson - (Wes?) and is great.

List price or street price? Everyone knows how terribly inflated Gibson list prices are. Street price of $6,000? How about Mark Campellone? He will make an amazing 17 inch guitar for about the L-5 street price. Gary Zimnicki would probably do the same. I know that Bucky Pizzarelli has enjoyed his 7-string Zimnicki archtops.
_________________
Beware of alliances that are formed by dividing relationships of others.
.
Trust your own opinion of a guitar or amp. Form your opinion from what you value. Your need, preference, circumstance, experience, and opportunity are the most important factors.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jazz Playa



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, I knew you were trying to imply that the answer to your question was no. To me that's simply preposterous because today there are some excellent carved archtops being produced by other makers. Gibson doesn't have the major market cornered on building fine carved archtop instruments anymore. To me that's a good thing because a lot of people who would like to own one can't afford $9 or $10 thousand to get one. Also a lot of people who can afford that still don't have the desire to shell out that much for a fine archtop instrument. Like I stated in my last post its simply the truth Igiro, like it or not. We can have different viewpoints on this though without becoming mortal enemies Laughing .

Anyway these types of subjects tend to bore me. I much rather focus on playing, enjoying the music, the great tone, and becoming as great a player as I can, so I'm gonna go practice now. Peace.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
randyc



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 407
Location: Eureka, CA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Why, thank you, sir. I have truly enjoyed all of you high standard archtop diatribes, especially given that archtop craft was adapted from European voilin making, and refined by immigrants in the US.

Since this is an international forum I also appreciate your practice of supporting the world economy in action, if not words. I truly enjoy your other forum thread on the Fender Champ . . . especially the photo of all your assembled refinement parts with no US content. Three cheers for intellectual idiocy clothed in hypocrisy!


Guitar = arabic instrument, refined by Spaniards, archtop configuration = Lloyd Loar (Gibson) born in Illinois. (An emigrant only in the sense that ALL our forebears were emigrants at one time, even the ones that came across the land bridge.)

Look closer at that little test chassis. There's only one part that wasn't made here - the 12AX7 tube. They aren't made here any more because the Chinese (and the Russians, to a lesser degree) have underpriced our manufacturers and buyers tend to stop thinking about consequences when THEIR money is concerned. The scores of companies that USED to make tubes no longer exist. That's my whole point and has been all along, is there something obscure about that message? It's not addressed to you, personally, it's a general, conceptual message that I hoped many would think about.

The two transformers are made in Canada - an integral, inseparable partner in our economy - the two power tubes are U.S. made (NOS, early sixties vintage, one is Westinghouse, one is G.E. - $5.50 each and better than any imported vacuum tube at three times the price), all other components in that assembly are from my collection of parts going back fifty years or so with a 99% probability that they were manufactured here, since I haven't bought "new" parts in many years. (Bucketloads of that stuff are given to employees or thrown out by the companies that I worked for.) The design, metalworking, woodworking, assembly and test labor were of course mine. The aluminum came from ..... and the wood was grown in .... Smile

How about dropping the name calling that you started a couple of weeks ago with the "soup nazi" nonsense and still continue through your last post? I've called you no names and haven't remarked on your personality other than your propensity to speak for ALL of us, which is quite irritating. I get cranked up about the economic direction that I see this country moving but, my word man, that's not PERSONAL, it's not even political and it's definitely not religious. Economics isn't a topic that one normally regards as controversial, LOL.

Loosen up, S2, I'll do the same. When the forum stops being fun it's time to either leave or re-evaluate one's attitude !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum Index -> Guitars, Amps & Gizmos All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 4 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group