PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

[Tombolino]

Hi friends

I have all the theorry info on what chords can be subbed with what.

How do you all learn these so that you can think of them fast when you play with others?

Im learning them on slow tempo in Band in Box, one chord vamp. But the minute I open a real tune, I bewildered as how I could possibly sub fast on the go. Is it all memorized or whats the deal?

thanks

[Jazz Playa]

Oh I can help you with that. sounds like you've got them memorized in your head but your having trouble applying them "guitaristically".

First: write them all down. It always helps to have the things your learning written down. Even periodically re-write them from memory on 3x5 cards or in a notebook as part of your practice regimen. If you can't write them ALL out quickly from memory then you haven't really learned them yet.

Write out the original chord(s) and then write all the chord subs for that chord in a row next to it.

If you write them all out here in the thread then I'll help you with the next step of how to apply them "guitaristically" on your fingerboard so that you can apply them to your instrument at a moments notice.

[Jens]

@Tombolino:
Probably the first thing to do is to take the substitutions one by one. As with most things you practice, keep it easy to overlook, if you try to play every chord of a song with a new concept it is going to be very difficult to do. Pick a chord and a substitution and find a song where that is easy to practice. Once you have one of them down the next will be easier etc. etc.

When you talk about subs, what kind are you talking about? Using arpeggios or voicings from the key on the chord (f.ex. Am7 arp over Fmaj7) or changing the harmony of the tune into something else (altered chords, borrowing from other keys, passing or suspension chords etc. )

Jens
_________________
http://www.jenslarsen.nl

[Tombolino]

thanks. I have all the notes and info on elemental subs (diatonic, Dom subs, etc). No I haven't memorized them. BTW, i do have cycle of 4ths, 5ths, etc set up in Band in a Box.

Pls tell me how you learned them

[Jens]

I am still not really sure what you are exactly trying to learn but here's an example of how I approach a substitution:

1. Pick a chord+ a specific sound or scale f.ex: in C major: D7 and Amin melodic so playing D7(#11) on the V of V in C (as Take the A train).

2. Pick a place on the neck where you can 1. play the song and 2. play the A min melodic scale.

3. Try improvising with the A min melodic scale on a D7 rubato then slowly in time, emphasize the D7 arpeggio and the #11. Play through the song using a D7(#11) voicing so you get an idea of how it sounds in the harmonic situation.

4. Try improvising on Take the A train in that position using the stuff you just figured out in step 3.

5. Apply the same to another tune (Lady bird, The Girl From I, etc. etc.)

I am not sure if this is any help at all, but it is how I go about applying new harmonical material.

Jens
_________________
http://www.jenslarsen.nl

[Jazzy]

Check out the books from Bret Willmott, they`re really great.

[JakeJew]

I'm not sure there is such a thing as "all subs." Aren't there, speaking liberally, infinite chord substitutions? I've learned a bunch just one by one, each individually substitution has it's own character and should only be used if the player really hears it and feels that it's an appropriate way to express that segment of the tune at that particular moment.
_________________
"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland

[Tombolino]

Hi, thank you

I think I would to explain my question further.

I have enough theory info in my notes to know enough subing to keep me busy learning for a while. But I certainly can begin learning one type of sub at a time (doesnt matter which one). So lets say I decide to start practicing subbing C major or Cmajor 7 with amin9 or am.......I know I can cycle on 5ths or 4ths and practice that type of sub on various major chords. So the question is, do you all end up just memorizing what subs what?

So down the road, if I see an Fmajor I should have already memorized that the diatonic vi sub is dm? Or how else have some of you made this sub learning process a bit easier?

thanks

[JakeJew]

[Tombolino]

just chord substitution (comping I guess yes)

[dewey decibel]

[JakeJew]

[sunflower]

[jazzerchick]

If you get the Ted Greene book "Chord Chemistry", there's a lot of great info in the back about subs and all sorts of other things. Hard book with
loads of info to work through slowly.

[steve]