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new to jazz.. comping an issue atm
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liquidtensionJP



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Leeming, Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: new to jazz.. comping an issue atm Reply with quote

Hey Guys,

Ive got a few questions about comping
Ive being playin with jazz stuff for about 12months now.. and now im serious about it.. im seeing the best guitar teacher in my town.. im sight reading, practicing scales arpeggios etc
but Im finding my comping to be a bit boring..

im starting off with a standard called blue monk.. it looks like a 12bar in Bb

But im really into that whole piano sounding chord changes.. with lots of chord changes etc nice chord voicings etc.. and what style of rythms should i practice? like swing?

I guess I just need some advice on how to start practicing my comping and chord changes and subs etc?

does this make sense haha

thanks in advance!
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest listening to how guitar and piano players you like comp and then try to imitate that (rhythmically more than harmonically since you are probably playing another tune than them).

Comping is (to me anyway) about communicating with the soloist and the drummer, so try to keep that in mind when listening, and when comping.

I would suggest checking out The miles Davis cd's "Four and More" and "My Funny Valentine" They are really good examples of rhythm section playing and taking it a bit further, but still swinging Smile

Jens
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liquidtensionJP



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 8
Location: Leeming, Perth, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks heaps for the advice!! cheers

I will go buy those cds today after work and have a listen

do you guys play much samba and bossa nova stuff? who is a good example of this?
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would ask why to listen to Charlie Byrd for brazilian guitar.?!
Also, Laurindo Almeida was great, but there are many, much more suitable guitarists from Brazil to check out if you´re beginner towards intermediate....
If you want to learn bossa nova you should start checking out the work of Tom Jobim (Antônio Carlos Jobim) and Vinícius de Moraes.
On guitar, you can find lots of good interpretations by João Gilberto.
As for a great samba guitar, without too many harmonic mistery, you could check out João Bosco......
But my 2 cents to you would be to study some harmony.
If you want to play jazz, you dont play a "rhythm"
You have to be harmonically schooled to a certain
point so that your ideas wont be limitted that way.
When thats done, then its up to the person, how musical he os she is, to make all these things flow in context....
But again, if you´re struggeling with a 12bar Bb Blues, I would not suggest you to check any samba or bossa nova out, with the purpose to get better in your comping!!!
B
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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Location: The Hague, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with Bjorn on that one. If you want to check brazilian playing take brazilian guys, not american.

Jens
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe, what I surprise, I was´nt expecting that, igiro Laughing
I understand your point, however, I think that you can go allmost everywhere in the world today, and get a great jazzteacher,
you have to look longer if you want to play Brazilian or Cuban music for that matter.
And yes, you´re right, Byrd is a fine player, and propably world known for his dedication to Brazilian music. I would not know, I have just heard a few clips with him on youtube, and yes, brazilian tunes, but it just dont swing "right"
I dont see anything wrong in playing a bossa nova tune in a more jazzy way, it sounds fun and nice too, but if someone wants to be pointed in direction of Brazilian music, then brazilian musicians are better sources imo.
I guess it all comes down to how much effort one is willing to do, dont you think??
As for your out-of-issue comments on whatever might be logical to whatever point, you are talking about listening, I was repliying to the topic regarding learning.
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Jens



Joined: 20 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry Maybe I should have been a bit more precise. It is just that some of the most famous (older) recordings of american jazz artists playing brazilian music are (in my opinion anyway) not good examples of the style. I was not trying to insult any nations, beliefs or cultures etc.

I find these a lot better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJxHFW2S-Eo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41-U3Np-qY

Probably Bjorn has some even better links ?

Jens
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jens,
I think you said it well.
No insults there!
Hey man, if you want to study danish, you dont go to Sweeden right?!
I can find some links which, imo, are worth to study if one wants to learn samba and bossa nova:

Bossa Nova:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n81JA6xSbcs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqG17tNbxTA

Samba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bcs3Fy-ZMw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7TnVVto9Xg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK9vwPGWi9Y

Bjørn
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sunflower



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow ......... yeah
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bjørn, what about Toninho Horta? What do you think of him? I`ve been listening a bit too him lately, the album`s called Durango Kid 2. He`s a great player.
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Bjorn



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1037
Location: Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
lgiro wrote:


Getz and Byrd were not, but they did record an album that was for awhile the highest selling jazz record of all time. if not for them Americans might not have even heard of the term Bossa Nova.


You are SO right about that Thumbs Up!
We can thank Stan Getz for opening the musical door to Brazil, but still lgiro, Jazz is Jazz, Brazilian music is Brazilian music.
Things can be mixed up, but still, if one wants to play brazilian music, then he/she should allways choose sources of inspiration from native names rather than jazzers interpretting, right?
I wont try to point out further what I mean, because I know that you know Im right! You´re just a grumpy ol´ jazzer Cool
I respect you for years of great posts, and very often you make clear that you know what you talk about. Thats why I wont get upset the times where you´re just trying to justify yourself, and even might get a bit personal.
(Not this case, but has happened Wink......)

And Michael, yes I knom Horta, he is in one of the clips I posted.
I have played some sessions with him, and also with both Michel and Thiago from the last clip in the "samba section"
I guarantee you, I have never played with a bas player like that, If you did´nt check it out, do so!!
When playing my 6-string bass, I would be happy to play half of what he does on his 4!!
Its phrasing, rhythm/comping, feeling....Everything, as close as it might get to perfection, and i hate to use this term in music, but Thiago is simply another level........
Happy easter everybody Smile
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CalebFSU



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Location: Tallahassee, Fl

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamandu Costa is such a bad ass in that clip.He is such a young looking cat too.
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Bjorn



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, he is crazy Smile
only about 29-30 years or something....
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:
Jobim and Gilberto were the originators/pioneers I believe?

Getz and Byrd were not, but they did record an album that was for awhile the highest selling jazz record of all time. if not for them Americans might not have even heard of the term Bossa Nova.

ill have to check out Gilberto. I heard his name mentioned on XM radio two days ago. I didnt know it, or had forgotten it.


Actually it was Getz and Gilberto playing the music of Jobim on that album ,and of course Astrud Gilberto was on the album too. So it wasn't Getz and Byrd. Getz-Gilberto was my first jazz album.
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randalljazz



Joined: 19 May 2009
Posts: 92

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

getz/gilberto (which is the album title) was recorded in march '63.

jazz samba (getz and byrd) was recorded in february '62.

the first bossa nova recording was gilberto's chega de saudade, music by jobim/de moraes. single was released in '58, album in '59.
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