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Party Tricks and Dangerous Stunts!

 
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Party Tricks and Dangerous Stunts! Reply with quote

Hey!

Anyone willing to share how they move chords chromatically?

I'm thinking of situations where you have a bar of say Dm7 followed by a bar of Bbm7 and are tempted to fill in the gaps. (please no lectures on the use of space or the importance of melody etc - I just want ideas to toy with)

For example a shared tone. Eg keep the F note as the highest voice and then create voicings (randomly - just using one's ever so skillful ears?) and get Dm7 Db7b5 Cm11 B9#11 Bbm7

Or

Parallel voicings (self explanatory really)

Disguised cycles? (not the camouflaged one's the military use)

I have a fair few concepts but I am hoping to learn more AND if you may some insight into what's going on in your noodle when these situations arise.

Cheers.
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 1660
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there Steve.

Some of the things I do, is to break down the harmony, and try to see the triad possibilities. Ex. Fmajor triad over the Dm is quite obvious, but the F triad is also the dominant to Bbm. One step further could be C to F to Bbm. When I work with this I start from all inversions, both open and closed triads. And try to see all the possibilities connecting these triads.
Another one could be Am triad over Dm7, to Abmajor over Bbm. And then add the dominant E to Am to Ab to Db. The Ab is the dominant to Db. There`s endless possibilities here, and you can take it as far out as you want I guess. My examples was just some simple ideas. It bascially about creating new chord progressions/cadences.

Then you could add a melody note, some ideas here could be: contrary motion between the triad and the melody, try to keep the same top tone throughout ( always beware of the tension this tone creates on each chord ).

BTW, Have you checked out Jimmy Wyble? I think you`ll like his playing and ideas.

( Yeah, another tip, go and get the chorales by Bach Smile )

later,
Michael
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sevenflatfive



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jazzy wrote:
( Yeah, another tip, go and get the chorales by Bach Smile


Yeah, man BACH BACH BACH!
No matter what style you play!
Very Happy
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Jazzy, thanks for the tip!

Right on the money as far as chromatic movement is concerned. Cheers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxGvRFxb75k

Time to pick out some voicings.
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, I really recommend that you get the Wyble books.
And also here`s A LOT of great Wyble materiale:

http://www.davidoakesguitar.com/jimmyTribute.php
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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Location: oz

PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great link Jazzy! Many thanks!!

After checking out the some of the sound files I believe I can hear some of this influence in the playing of Rosenwinkel on the Standards Trio album.
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're most welcome Steve.

Btw, have you checked out George Van Eps? You can definitely hear his influence on that album.
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve,
If you're in a situation where you're "driving" and not stepping on someone else's cock (guitar solo, guitar trio, no piano, or no especially stodgy horn players or shaky singers etc), you can throw any crazy-ass thing in. In your example Dm to Bbm, no matter what you do the bass player will probably play a D then a Bb. Why not just change the quality of the D, play a major or phrygian type voicing. Liberating yourself from always playing something that can be explained from something in your fave jazz theory book will allow you to get to some of that hip sounding Herbie/Brad type stuff.

The two chords are a maj 3rd apart, why not throw the other one in between, Gbm. Or Fm for a little down-a-fifth motion. or Ebm for some up-a-fifth. Bbm can share alot with A alt7 and Eb7, so your example chords are not unrelated. If you use D Major, you can play the idea again down a half step over the Bbm. Or use AbMaj in between to anticipate the sound of Bbm. Anything goes.

I used to feel like "what is Herbie thinking with this stuff???" It was a mystery waiting for Scooby and the gang to solve. Now I just think, he's Herbie and he can do what he wants. And I think what he wants is to have a good time while seriously throwing down. You did ask for danger and this is not without risk. You should try to be careful about when you do it, comping for others this way can start fights. Do it behind someone who is already silly, or too drunk to connect with the right hook. Or save these kind of ideas for your own solo.
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffrey_Burr wrote:
Steve,
If you're in a situation where you're "driving" and not stepping on someone else's cock (guitar solo, guitar trio, no piano, or no especially stodgy horn players or shaky singers etc), you can throw any crazy-ass thing in. In your example Dm to Bbm, no matter what you do the bass player will probably play a D then a Bb. Why not just change the quality of the D, play a major or phrygian type voicing. Liberating yourself from always playing something that can be explained from something in your fave jazz theory book will allow you to get to some of that hip sounding Herbie/Brad type stuff.

The two chords are a maj 3rd apart, why not throw the other one in between, Gbm. Or Fm for a little down-a-fifth motion. or Ebm for some up-a-fifth. Bbm can share alot with A alt7 and Eb7, so your example chords are not unrelated. If you use D Major, you can play the idea again down a half step over the Bbm. Or use AbMaj in between to anticipate the sound of Bbm. Anything goes.

I used to feel like "what is Herbie thinking with this stuff???" It was a mystery waiting for Scooby and the gang to solve. Now I just think, he's Herbie and he can do what he wants. And I think what he wants is to have a good time while seriously throwing down. You did ask for danger and this is not without risk. You should try to be careful about when you do it, comping for others this way can start fights. Do it behind someone who is already silly, or too drunk to connect with the right hook. Or save these kind of ideas for your own solo.


great post, thanks JB!
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
Location: oz

PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffrey Burr: "Liberating yourself from always playing something that can be explained from something in your fave jazz theory book will allow you to get to some of that hip sounding Herbie/Brad type stuff. "

Somethime we need to be told/hear this. Thanks, after admiring your playing for a while now I believe I can trust your judgment on these matters. Dmaj, that's some crazy shit though.

"You should try to be careful about when you do it, comping for others this way can start fights."

Laughing Laughing

Great post, thanks!

Rooby roo!
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Jeffrey_Burr



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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crazy perhaps but fun. One specific way I've been doing that is using an E triad for a sort of lydian sound you might say. E triad over a D minor, you can resolve it to a F triad if you're not on your way somewhere else. I think I've said it before, alot of these ideas are coming from late romatic or impressionistic composers. Ravel, Faure, Scriabin, these guys are full of wacky nuttiness.
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steve



Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 867
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come to think of it I have heard the Brecker Bros playing major over minor a fair bit. I even caught James Moody resolving to a D maj triad on a live performance of Night In Tunisia once (naughty man).

I have been loving Brad Mehldau's playing on Scofield's Works For Me album. I love the way he takes of on an excursion in his solo on Not You Again (There Willl Never Be Another You).

BTW, there is a solo transcription of Scofield's solo on this song that I have been enjoying. If anyone is interested:
http://pubcs.free.fr/lefloch/Not%20you%20again.pdf

The discussion on this thread so far has reminded me of "The 'River Trip' explanation of Jazz Improvisational Styles" by George Russell (1961) found in his Lydian Chromatic book.
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hobersmith



Joined: 28 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wyble is really great, but as in many types of music, if you really want to practice something you turn to classical music. Bach kicks ass Very Happy
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Jazzy



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hobersmith wrote:
Bach kicks ass Very Happy
Yeah Smile
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