PlayJazzGuitar.com Forum

JakeJew · Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2192 Location: Boston, MA

Cool link, thanks. That was pretty tasteful. It was like, he could burn but he did more than burn. Neat arrangement too, couldn't quite follow it, hehe.

Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqEuunhzOPI

For the guitar solo, some cool ideas, but it doesn't seem like it's easy for him. He seems tense and I don't hear great follow through to his ideas. To his credit, I think there are probably few (if not no) guitarists in the world who could do better on that tune at that tempo.

However, the PIANO solo (solo to 2:20 to 5:03 in the second vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5eJHvK194k&feature=related ) I think is one of the most perfect uptempo solos I've ever heard...he does awesome things with the time and harmony, seems relaxed, has a great arc to the solo. It seems like playing around at this tempo is completely comfortable to him.

I'd love to develop my ears and sense of time to come anywhere close to that.
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Jens · Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:37 am Post subject:

Nice! I some how never listened to Kreisberg that much.

I don't get the feeling that it's tense, and I like a lot of his ideas which are the same concept as Gilad's to me, except they are often in 8th note lines, but I think the tempo is a bit lower? It does not have nearly as much interaction to me and that makes it less dynamic. The interaction is much more present in the piano solo.

Jens
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dewey decibel · Joined: 15 Feb 2006 Posts: 1677

Hey guys, long time! I used to worry a lot about this sort of thing in practice situations, but not so much in playing situations. The reason is I play the same kinds of things at up tempos as I do medium or slow tempos. I rarely play consecutive 8ths notes for more than a bar, I'm much more focused on shorter phrases and ideas. I think this comes from the guys I listened to and play with.

I agree that the guys that can really burn at up tempos pretty much do the same thing at all tempos. Myself, I didn't really listen to guitar players and maybe that's why I didn't have this issue. Even some of the horn "shredders" I like (such as Johnny Griffen) still have a lot of rests and pauses in their 8th note lines.

Point being; if you want to play like Coltrane, yeah you'll need a ridiculous technique. But if you want to play like Mobley, Miles, Morgan, Gordon, etc you really don't need all that much. IMO!

Tung · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 203 Location: toronto

randalljazz · Joined: 19 May 2009 Posts: 84

joe lovano talks about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUdeevt9qQg

Tung · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 203 Location: toronto

PaulD · Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1130 Location: Chicago

Yes, thanks. Great link!

Paul

JakeJew · Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2192 Location: Boston, MA

Something else I'm realizing is really essential is...licks. Pre-arranged vocabulary.

It's really hard to improvise each note individually on the fly...

Also, technique makes some lines much easier than others. Makes sense to me to work out vocabulary that is possible, on a technical level, at the desired tempos.

I have come to realize that most guitar players that can play uptempo lines rely on a lot of pre-organized vocabulary.
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"Inspiration may be a form of superconsciousness, or perhaps of subconciousness - I wouldn't know. But I am sure that it is the antithesis of self-consciousness." - Aaron Copland

PaulD · Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1130 Location: Chicago

I agree Jake. There's no doubt in my mind that licks are essential. Watch at the 6:56 mark on Hal Galper's Master Class The Illusion of An Instrument

Paul

JakeJew · Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 2192 Location: Boston, MA

PaulD · Joined: 18 Sep 2004 Posts: 1130 Location: Chicago

How about calling it "previously used improvisation"? Smile

Tung · Joined: 20 Nov 2007 Posts: 203 Location: toronto

At uptempo= more prefabricated licks. The great players know how to string them together so it's a coherent statement. a well written story that's strung together by a series of phrases.
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Viper · Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 566 Location: Bristol, UK

pre enjoyed improv.

Henryrobinett · Joined: 01 May 2010 Posts: 180 Location: Sacramento, Ca

One of my things, that's made it more difficult in the short run, is lack of licks. I decided - for right or wrong, that I didn't want to procure the regular set of vocab and have pre-arranged licks. Now of course I see the value in this and I TEACH students all about this and give them reams of lines, because thats the accepted way it's done. But FOR ME jazz is the art of improvisation and I wanted to actually learn to improvise stream of consciousness.

So I HAVE practiced my ii-Vs to the point where I get it and no longer pull them out of a hat. And learn some lines to the point where I get it and don't pull them out of my hat. But mainly I practiced tunes, soling at various tempos and creating my own lines. Transcriptions to the point where I HEAR what's going on and can intellectually justify the notes against the chords, understand the scalar and chordal neighbors/enclosures/bop phraseology but never pulled the rabbits out of my hat, simply because I never spent the time or saw the value in memorizing them.

That said you can achieve speed and learn to phrase without memorizing licks. But you have to practice playing the tunes like Cherokee, Rhythm changes, Donna Lee, Domingo at 250-280 or above, until you just feel comfortable.
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