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Are we all guys?
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Viper



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the subject of the sexual orientation of jazz guitarists is not worth pursuing.

On a more positive note I have seen quite a good video by Emily Remler Bebop And Swing Guitar. by Hot Licks (really).
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viper's drag wrote:
Perhaps the subject of the sexual orientation of jazz guitarists is not worth pursuing.


I think it would be very interesting.
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Martacus



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 115
Location: Vermont

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viper's drag wrote:
On a more positive note I have seen quite a good video by Emily Remler Bebop And Swing Guitar. by Hot Licks (really).


THAT'S a great video - Emily made some great points on it. It's actually one of my favorite instructional vids.
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Gorecki
Site Admin


Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 62518
Location: Davis, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JakeJew wrote:
viper's drag wrote:
Perhaps the subject of the sexual orientation of jazz guitarists is not worth pursuing.


I think it would be very interesting.


NOT! There are better qualified forums for such topic matters, and truly I really don't want to know. Laughing
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JakeJew



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 2190
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:
truly I really don't want to know. Laughing


Why not? It's not super relevant, but I like learning about the individual artists and who they were as people, it gives better insight to why they did what they did. But what's the harm in knowing?
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 62518
Location: Davis, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JakeJew wrote:
Gorecki wrote:
truly I really don't want to know. Laughing


Why not? It's not super relevant, but I like learning about the individual artists and who they were as people, it gives better insight to why they did what they did. But what's the harm in knowing?



It's entirely relevant in scope!
Interesting you used the term 'were' as people (past tense). That's exactly why I don't care. I have met, many, many well known people over the years and too many instances of people I either liked or even indifferent about were not 'good people' on an interpersonal level, even to the degree where there are persons who I respect musically I have turned down the opportunity to meet because it could possibly ruin my experience of their material. To be a bit Cliche, "The music and the man are not necessarily the same people." So, I choose to keep them apart!

A little more than you asked for I'm sure. Razz
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joyce Cooling - contemporay jazz artist.

I've seen some very good female guitarists but usually they have been classical players.

I guess its because we usually get started playing guitar when we are 12 or 13 because we think it make the chick dig us, and it did a little but some of us found we really like the guitar, chicks or not.

I think the only reason we don't see more is that they tend to be drawn more to the piano, as were my daughters.

The guitar is also physically demanding, which makes the trend for female guitarists in the classical arena seem more strange as playing classical guitar is very strenuous. I wouldn't want to finger wrestle with a girl that was an accomplished classical player because she would probably be very strong.

But I agree, there should be more, and they would be just as good as it, but I think society tends to guide us in our youth and men and women naturally gravitate toward different things.

That being said, I must say that very few women guitarists look natural holding an electric guitar. I say that at the risk of being called a chauvinist. But look at women who play the ELECTRIC guitar, it just seems to be awkward on them. An exception is Bonnie Raitt, it seems to fit as natural on her as any guy. But check it out and see if I'm crazy, but it just seems to be a more male oriented instrument.

Maybe the psychologists are right, maybe the guitar is a "sexual" expression, not to put too fine a point on it.

Daryl
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. I would have to agree with Gorecki and Viper here (re: are we all gays), only because it begs more unpleasantness of the kind seen above.

Don't make me open thesaurus.com and get all bitchy. I'll forward the link to Bill Stewart, dammit! As Satan, I reserve the right to have Steve Vai stand in for me on any ensuing guitar battles.

Again, this talk of physical guitar demands. ??? I'm also reminded of a certain well-respected (by myself included) male guitar legend who is crazy awkward looking with the guitar. Crazy, strained hand positions.
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axebox



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, this sure is a strange thread. What started as an attempt to verify one's gender ends in some kind of cornucopia: bashing, bragging, gender differences, female jazz guitar players and musicians, dyslexia, and some intelligent posts worthy of repeated reading. I'm amused at all these.

Well, as they say, birds of the same feather flock together. We all know why we're here in this forum.

Now here's a point to ponder. Are females more likely to engage in gossip than males? After you, ladies.
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Stan Kawolski



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Blues is pumpin' live, till one o'clock. Best Blues radio show to be found. At midnight is "Blues and Beyond" with the same DJ. This guy knows Coltrane, Monk, all that, but He focuses on the Blues. Lots of Great women artists from Memphis Minnie to Shemikia Copeland. He already started on Otis Rush. Gotta go!!!! enjoy; 7 pm to 1am, est ,saturday nights. http://www.xpn.org/listen.php
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffreyBurr,

Sorry to offend your refined sensibilities but you obviously didn't read my post, which attempted to examine the logic behind why there are a LOT MORE MALE GUITAR PLAYERS, either that or your one of those "oh so sensitive people" that insist there are no differences between men and women. Well, look around you, there are a great many differences between men and women. I like it that way. I would try to explain my position but you probably wouldn't read it.

Bottom line:

There are fewer women guitar players then men, therefore SOMETHING is different. I never said they weren't capable, in fact they obviously are, I just said they don't seem to be drawn to it.

And it IS physically demanding, especially in the beginning when most kids are either drawn in or abandon the instrument. I've never head anyone complain about sore or bleeding fingers while learning the piano. My hands muscles will still ache on some hard hitting exercises.

As far as girls looking awkward with a guitar, I stand by that. While some look very natural with a guitar many don't. It's probably about physcial differances (Yes, girls are different physically, I know that may be a shock but it's true). There are girls who can throw an over-hand fastball as well as anyone, but most girls throw like, well... girls. They are different. On the other hand most women can sing really really high notes, most men cannot, otherwise they are Frankie Valli.

Can girls play the guitar well?. Damn straight they can!

Do many of them start or stick it out? NO. Sure there are a lot of them if you put them all together but as a PERCENTAGE they are way in the minority. SO SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT and I'm not aware of any evil males keeping them from taking up the guitar.

There are also fewer men that crotchet. Nothing wrong with it, they just don't find it something they like to do. There is nothing chauvinistic about admitting that MEN AND WOMEN ARE DIFFERENT, THEIR INTERESTS ARE DIFFERENT. IT'S A GOOD THING! It's a very good thing.

I didn't take up the guitar 43 years ago because it was a guy thing, I'm just living proof of natural selection. If I had been a girl there is a good chance I wouldn't have taken up the guitar, I would have probably been more drawn to the piano, in which case today, I would be playing a instrument that actually stays in tune.

Daryl
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Daryl, easy man. I'm not sure what I said that made you think my delicate sensibilities were offended. I did read your post but I didn't have that much to say about it because I couldn't see much that I disagreed with. I know sometimes I don't convey my meaning clearly.
All I said that was in response to your post is - I don't think the guitar is as physically demanding as some people around here are saying, although I must admit didn't stop to consider how difficult it can be for a beginner...and I also wanted to point out that Pat Matheny doesn't look natural with the guitar in his hands. The rest of the post was in reference to the discussion of sexual orientation, and it was a largely a self-mocking joke. Maybe my sense of humor doesn't work at all in this medium.
As to your other points, I have no real disagreement. It's not hard to see there are more men guitarists than women, by an order of magnitude. It's not likely a statistical anomaly for the x files, something is probably different.
My stance is that cultural conditioning leads girls and boys to pursue different interests. Naturally I've heard about scientific work suggesting that boys are better, younger at spatial relations/ manipulation and girls are better, younger at language/interpersonal stuff, but I really don't think those are inborn. I think it's socially ingrained from a very early age, and that it must have been a wildly successful survival technique a long time ago. I couldn't really see applying a value judgement to it; at this point I don't think we need that kind of behavioral conditioning for survival. I would still want to have sex with my wife as frequently as possible. Again, it seems to me that saying men and women are different is also implying that all men are similar and all women are similar. All people are different, no?
When I lived in NYC there was a big knitting fad at one point, all the superhip guys were doing it!
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JeffreyBurr,

Fair enough. You're right about Pat Metheny, he holds his guitar like a girl Wink But he's soooo good!

One of my daughters managed to stick with the guitar long enough to get past the sore finger stage but her interest is minor and waning.

My other daughter tried but gave up. I think she was doing it because she was dating a guitar player at the time (Boy, that's a scary thought.) This despite the fact that she is a very good piano player and vocalist and very talented. Now she is dating a cello player, whatever that means.

My son can't carry a tune in a basket and has no interest in the guitar or anything that doesn't involve a video controller.

I think mostly its social conditioning, but I think there may be something there that is more male oriented than female. I can't think of any other reason for the disparity.

Have good. Thanks for the reply.
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Jeffrey_Burr



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 164
Location: california

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly! Metheny, in my opinion mind you, works way too hard. And his right wrist is bent backwards.

The (other) love of my life is my '59 L-5. I use 13's sometimes 14's but it's like butter if ya ask me. Easy as you please. Light touch. for dynamics. Yummy. The topic that wouldn't die. 'Course I couldn't play a Tele with light strings without bending all the pitches out of tune, not to save my life. I'm not a bodybuilder y'know, I'm just used to the longboard.
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly people learn to do things in the "wrong" way, and do it well. Fly-casters, golfers, guitar players all have their constituents that break the rules, yet are successful.

Playing the guitar though, can be hard physically. Classical guitars for example can cause a lot of stress in order to be able to bar that wide flat neck cleanly and then stretch the other fingers up to 4 frets away.

I've been playing for 43 years, a lot of that time professionally and I have to admit that any tune that I happen to play rhythm on and happens to use bar chords all the way through, will make my thumb muscle scream by the end of the tune. I don't think my thumb muscle is capable of being developed enough to not ache after 5 minutes of non-stop bar chords. Again this is after 43 years of hard guitar work. I have callouses to my knuckles, and my hands and fingers are strong from that many years of playing, but my left thumb will protest on 5 straight minutes of bar chords. And yes, I know how to do it, and I'm not pushing too hard, I just have a wimpy left thumb I guess. With that being said, I never fall off the chord, too much pride for that. Wink

Daryl
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