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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl it almost sounds as if you have a bit of arthritis kicking in? Confused
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Viper



Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 568
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Take it or leave it x5 Reply with quote

Take 5, with those long passages alternating between Ebm and Bbm7. For some reason in this context Ebm sounds better than Ebm7. If someone is soloing you don't get the relief of playing the bridge. I used to play with a guy who liked to stretch out on that pedal.

For me its one to avoid. (The 5/4 thing is not a problem) its just the thumb packs up' I just have play Em7 / Bb7 or some other strategy like a shorter barre. I don't much like Take 5 anyway.

Maybe we are doing something wrong, though I have looked at a book for classical guitarists called Pumping Nylon which addresses this physical stuff.
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Daryl it almost sounds as if you have a bit of arthritis kicking in?


No, its always been that way. The large muscle at the base of my thumb will ache if pressed into continuous barre chords for more than 3 or 4 minutes. Now this doesn't mean excruciating pain, but after awhile it would force me to play a non barre chord for a measure to ease the pain. If there is just one measure in a verse or a chorus that is not barre then I could play the rest barre all night long given that brief periodic rest. Finger picking tunes in which you barre the strings through the whole tune do the same thing.

It's not a big deal, I just got on this tangent because of the discussion of how physical playing the guitar is. I just find it strange that after all these decades you would think that my thumb could apply constant pressure all night long. Muscles tend to condition that way. But for this particular issue I can still make my thumb hurt after nearly a half century of playing.

It really doesn't cause any big problems, just an observation on the physical demands of guitar playing, small though they may be, they do exist.

Daryl
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 62518
Location: Davis, CA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darylcd wrote:
Quote:
Daryl it almost sounds as if you have a bit of arthritis kicking in?


Muscles tend to condition that way. But for this particular issue I can still make my thumb hurt after nearly a half century of playing.


Ahhh! So it's likely it's not muscle related it's a tendon thing, sorry just find it interesting the things individual people have to deal with. Wink
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really think I have any "problems" with my thumb or tendons or such, it just has never been keen on 5 minutes of straight barre chords.

Even weight lifters reach a point in doing bench presses where the muscles just protest doing anymore. My thumb (actually the muscle is more in the hand at the base of the thumb) just finds that after four minutes of barring it needs a break.

I appreciate everyone's concern but now it begs the question, Does anyone else experience this or can everyone jump from barre chord to barre chord endlessly without any hand muscles protesting?

I can do it to the point where it hurts, break for 5 seconds and do it for another long stretch, it's not something that stays, just something that builds up eventually to where it needs a quick break.

You know, it's like when your working under your car or kitchen sink and you hold the wrench out at arm's length for awhile, soon, you have to put it down.

Fortunately, its been the rare occasion when I've needed to play non-stop barres for 5 minutes.

Either the guitar is physically demanding, or I'm a wus Rolling Eyes
Daryl
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Gorecki
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darylcd wrote:
I don't really think I have any "problems"

...

Either the guitar is physically demanding, or I'm a wus Rolling Eyes
Daryl


You'se a wus! Laughing

Seriously, having pain after 5 minutes is not normal, after 5 hours..sure but not 5 minutes...so you're claiming to not have a 'problem' and realistically it isn't a 'problem' unless you say so. But pain in any position after 5 minutes is not normal and constitutes an 'issue' none the less.

I've gone through periods in the past where play 64th notes at 120 all night would shoot a aweful pain down my arm the second I let it fall to my side but I found through medical advisory that I was becoming dehydrated during a set and was perscribed to drink more water. Haven't had that problem since...but it was without question, a problem. Wink
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK answer me this - How long can you hold a cresent wrench out at the end of your arm? 5 hours? If it's 5 minutes, does that mean there is something wrong with your arm?

What I experience in my thumb/hand is akin to holding that wrench out at the end of your arm. You just need to put it down after a few minutes and recover. I don't need to put the guitar down, I just need to switch from a full bar to something else for a measure.

Daryl
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

darylcd wrote:
OK answer me this - How long can you hold a cresent wrench out at the end of your arm? 5 hours? If it's 5 minutes, does that mean there is something wrong with your arm?
Daryl


Well that depends, if I started out wrenchin and could only hold it for 5 minutes, but after years of doing the same thing, over and over and over if there isn't an improvement, it would suggest there is either a problem or a physiological limitation. For you physiological limitation is what it certainly sounds like. But at the same time Durango certainly had a physiological limitation and that didn't stop him. Razz

When you barr, do you wrap your thumb around or place it against the back of the neck pointing toward the headstock?
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I press my thumb lightly against the back of the neck.

But I don't care how long you practice with a wrench you're not going to be able to hold it out at the end of your arm a lot longer than you can now. No matter how long a weight lifter works out he won't be able to hold 500lbs above his head for very much longer.

I have no problems with my hands or fingers in any respect, never had. But if you can play barre chords non-stop for very long times then you obviously have developed a grip that works favorably for you.

I will just continue to slip in an inside chord here and there to "get that wrench a little closer to my body." Wink

Daryl
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Fredrik



Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we all guys?

In other words yes Laughing
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darylcd
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro

Thanks for the tips, but its really not a problem. I'm not sure how this thread got so strung out.

It's a rare case where I ever play non-stop barre chords for 5 minutes, but it has come up on occasion over the past 43 years. It's not something I can't do, its just after 4 or 5 minutes of non-stop barre the thumb/hand muscle will protest, it has for decades and its rarely come up so I think I can live with it Wink

Daryl
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nezumi



Joined: 23 Sep 2006
Posts: 169

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that was a long haul up to the top for this thread.
L4sleeko wrote:
Quote:
I have average size hands (all right, keep it CLEAN Nezumi)


cleaning is not my job, L4. Very Happy

but i did measure my left hand today. from pinky tip to thumb tip, a measly 8 3/4.
I know somewhere on some thread you guys were measuring your hands.(that's a funny thing to say Twisted Evil )
so should I shoot myself now or what?
sometimes it just drives me around the bend to
(try to)play streched out chords....or even top/bottom string chords. Grrrrrr

hanni, jazzerchick, how about you ladies? I thought I had decent stretch but these days I'm starting to wonder......
maybe i'll switch to hawaiian guitar, closer to my size....sigh

i hate 8 3/4

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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said it before, I'll say it again, hand size does not matter. With one exception, extremely large hands would have trouble, and should consider bass instead. Wink
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jazzerchick



Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 968
Location: SanAntonio , Tx

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, nezumi. O.K., I was curious. Mine's just the same as yours. There are some stretches I have had to pass on too. My guitar also has a long scale.
Just have to find other cool voicings.
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hanni



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 660
Location: germany

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi all,
some interesting i find out between men and woman to play an instrument:
i asked our church gospel singers, do you play a musikinstrument? do you have a teatcher to learn this? do you like jazz?

80% plays an musicinstument, men mostly have a teatcher, no woman have a teatcher, some like jazz guitar, is this the same in america? does the people view only men? it seems that womans be like grey mouses if they want to play guitar, ....... now the womans feel more free with no teatcher, there is no pressure, no one who say do this ....do that...bla bla bla........,

i think the ways to learn guitar are very different to men and woman, i think itīs the same in jazz guitar, to me: i want to be a good musican but iīm not a good guitar player now, maybe in some years? i donīt know Laughing
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