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Political Views (remember hate never solves anything)...
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cjm



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:


but the modern American leftists have very few virtues IMO. they are a far cry from FDR and JFK IMO. and let's not even think about comparing them to Truman.

now, why would i say that?

here's their "all American" platform: abortion on demand, down sized military, weaker intelligence support, ACLU and UN driven defense strategy and philosophy, gay marriage, legalized drugs, no guns, higher taxes, big government, pro-atheism, anti-capitalism, and socialism.



You don't know what liberalism is, or isn't...You're merely parroting Rush Limbaugh -- a phony. He's also :

1. A war hawk who wrangled a 4-f dodge for a highschool "football injury."

2. A formerly closeted drug addict who railed at the immorality of drug addicts while forcing his maid to get drugs for him.

3. A staunch supporter of "Borrow and Spend," big government federal policy so that future generations have to pay the tax bill, while railing against any taxes he might have to pay.

4. A "manly man" who crassly used his pulpit to attack under-age girls.

5. A rabid homophobe, which makes one wonder if the man doth not protest too much.

When Rush Limbaugh isn't challenged, he happily accepts the mantle of "political sage."

When he gets caught, he retreats by claiming that he merely provides "entertainment."

People who do not know, and will not learn, history buy into this talk radio/shouting head crap and accept it as gospel, because it offers easy sound byte answers.

You might enjoy reading It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. If you do, look for some parallels between the regime supporting radio evangelical leader and some of the Limbaugh/ O' Reilly types of today's world.
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alfonso



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1258
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjm,
You brought up alot of good points about Rush, like I said I used to listen to him years ago, prior to the drug addiction thing. I listened to him from 1990 to 92 or something like that. Anyways, I think he's still on drugs the dude was a real pill hog, my thought is he's either on Methadone or getting drugs under different names, like one of his Attorneys. Was that slanderous??, oh well life goes on and it's just my opinion. later


cjm wrote:

2. A formerly closeted drug addict who railed at the immorality of drug addicts while forcing his maid to get drugs for him.
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lgiro, even though you did not ask me i feel obligated to respond to your request.

First of all the "Liberal" and "Conservative" labels aren't as useful as they used to be especially in regards to the way they aquire and exersice power.

In regards to policy i would say Liberals are:

-more self critical, more progressive
-reactive instead of proactive (not going to war before finding any wmds)
-tolerant in terms of nonconformity
-less ethnocentric
-more inclined to allow special intrest groups influence policy rather than only allowing the major corporations.
-more inclinded to embrace our 3 branch style government. I say this because it seems the trend with the Bush administration is more and more empowerment of administrative branch.
-less likely to distribute power to the top echelon
-less likely to flood washington with a record 30k lobbyists (shouldn't this say obvious things about how policy is being made)
-more likely to distribute weath the the public sector (back to us taxpayers) rather than the private sector (government subsidies)

* my main problem with "conservatives" right now is their attempt to redifine personal liberties. They want us to give away personal privacy for security. if you were truely a conservative you would want to maintain well established/well defined liberties at all cost. The best example of this is Homeland Security, which in my opinion is a just another way to maintain the perception of the treat of terrorism in order to legitimate the rediculous allocation of resources (oil) and war contracts (top republicans are stock holders in the companies with these contracts). This is definately not what the fox television and other mainstream media cats will say as they are rediculously to the right, on the same hand NPR is rediculously to the left.
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cjm



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So lgiro, I take it you haven't read It Can't Happen Here?

I suggested it because if you read some stuff like that you wouldn't have to parrot Rush Limbaugh and complain foolishly about "classic ad hominem" attack.

The reason it is not "classic ad hominem," is that the real message is about "moral superiority," (and "manliness") and includes the claim by Limbaugh, et al, of embodying that superiority (and manliness).

They're hypocrites and I pointed that out to you.

The messenger is the message in this case. Can't attack the message without a little feces getting smeared on the messenger.

Ain't my fault.
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L4sleeko



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 646

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

?8^x
eww, smeared feces . . . Yuk! Wink
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voodobop



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
Location: new orleans

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reality? Every form of news media is subject to bias, especially one that points out the bias of one group and completely ignores the bias of the other. You have to learn to filter it out yourself. The best way prob isnt to find multiple bias sources and pick and choose what you like out of each. Try to always look at things in terms of being a political scientist.
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L4sleeko



Joined: 01 Jul 2006
Posts: 646

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Ahh, now voodobop, I LIKE you're style.

?;^)~
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dewey decibel



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 1677

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rush Limbaugh? Shocked


I guess I shouldn't be shocked, it all makes sense now.


Quote:
You could be right and that's ok, it's not gonna kill me to learn to live around a couple of gay married people. The only point I stand by is that I used to be a counselor and most of the gays that I ran across, spoke to and had as clients were very nice people. However, most of them had serious mental problems. Sure some of them didn't have a choice and were probably a man born in a woman's body and vice versa but for the most part they were highly disturbed humans with deep seated problems, turning gay didn't take care of their mental state and getting to marry a person of the same sex is not gonna take care of their mental status either. If someone on here is gay maybe they could answer the one question that bugs the crap outta me. Why do some gays have to act so damn flamin"? Why? I'll tell you why and this is just my opinion, it's a deep seated mental issue that happened when they were younger, maybe people picked on them at school but they seem to thrive on much needed negative attention


Yeah, and those Jews too, why do they have to act so Jewy?











(long akward silence to indicate heavy sarcasm)

I think one of the reasons some homosexuals have "issues" is because ever since they were born everything around them has been telling them who they are is wrong. I used the comparison to people that are of a Jewish background, as we don't get to choose our heritage, just as we don't get to choose our sexuality. There are those that would disagree, but most gay folk I've had conversations with about this have said something like, "Do you think I'd choose to be gay if it was a choice?"

But I have to give you credit man, even though you said what you said you also said this:

Quote:
You could be right and that's ok, it's not gonna kill me to learn to live around a couple of gay married people.


The key word here is tolerence. In this past election we had a referendum on gay marriage here, and there were a lot of TV commercials that made me cringe. One was of a bunch of kids, each one saying something like "I have two daddys" or "my mom married my dad, who then becaome my mom" and looking confused, with the ending title "how are you going to explain it to your kids?" Here's the fact- a large number of people are gay. And they're going to be gay whether it's legal or not. Letting them get married does not lessen your straight marriage. I'll even agree- don't call it marriage, call it something else. But what are you afraid of- suddenly going gay? That your kids may go gay? Let me ask you this, if they have these feelings but act straight because they're worried what you (and everyone else) would think of them, do you think they're going to grow up to be happy, healthy adults? Especially if they allow themselves to enter into a straight marriage?

I'll be honest, I don't really care for "flamming" people either, but I do know a couple. And I don't care for grandstanding blowhards like Rush either, whether they're saying things I agree with or not. But I'm tolerant.

Everybody needs to stop being so afraid of each other.
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cjm



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lgiro wrote:

no i havent read that. i dont read fiction much these days. reality is more important to me right now.


And that's why it might be better if we just talk about music and leave the politics to the political sites.

Fiction -- fiction that manages to become a classic -- becomes classic because it illustrates reality more clearly than a mere recitation of fact. It can also help the process of learning to discern fact from fiction -- and some of the most outrageous fiction is what is being presented as fact.

Perhaps that's the point of all great art -- including great jazz -- it provides the brain new ways to analyse information...

Offering a short selection of books that can sometimes open eyes to the human experience in western civilization over the past 150 years is about as difficult to come up with as an answer to the question, "What should I practice on the guitar?"

But here are five that you might not feel are a total waste of time after having read them, and bearing in mind that you have said you don't have time for fiction, and are trying to focus on "reality" and the guitar...and I suggest you read them in the order presented. If you have read any of them before, re-read them, with the eyes you possess today:

1. Huckleberry Finn.

2. Puddinhead Wilson.

3. Lady Chatterly's Lover.

4. The Grapes of Wrath.

and again...

5. It Can't Happen Here.


There are others...a lot of others...enough to fill a library...and some of them are probably better suited to a short list intended to reveal some fundamental truths.

But it's early morning, and I'm still on my first pot of coffee. They're not heavy, most of the writing scans well, and they do impart reality.

If you've been bold since you've been in diapers, be bold enough to try this.


Last edited by cjm on Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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alfonso



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1258
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deweydecibel,
Alot of good info. no doubt but a bit of mis-information as well, I am way more than tolerant. My main point was I didn't like homosexuals who flaunt their sexuality, (flamin'), regarding marriage for gays I agree let's let them have the same rights as married couples as far as medical insurance and the other benefits that married couples have but you're right we can't call it marriage cause that's not what it is. Let's call it fairage, that way everyone is happy and it even sounds fair. As far as me listening to Rush Limbaugh if you read one of my post I said I listened to him like between 1990 to 1992. My point is I listened to him, so what you gonna do about it? You don't know me at all so please don't offend me cause I listened to Rush for a couple years, that doesn't mean shit, I found it amusing, just like alot of other people around that time period. Also my statement was to Hanni and didn't have anything to do with you at all. If I offended you cause you or someone you know is gay then I'm truly sorry. At least we agreed on a couple of things, and yes you've opened my eyes as to why gays have so many mental issues. Regarding this thread I agree to disagree on a couple of your statements as I refuse to go back and forth.

dewey decibel wrote:
Rush Limbaugh? Shocked


I guess I shouldn't be shocked, it all makes sense now.


Quote:
You could be right and that's ok, it's not gonna kill me to learn to live around a couple of gay married people. The only point I stand by is that I used to be a counselor and most of the gays that I ran across, spoke to and had as clients were very nice people. However, most of them had serious mental problems. Sure some of them didn't have a choice and were probably a man born in a woman's body and vice versa but for the most part they were highly disturbed humans with deep seated problems, turning gay didn't take care of their mental state and getting to marry a person of the same sex is not gonna take care of their mental status either. If someone on here is gay maybe they could answer the one question that bugs the crap outta me. Why do some gays have to act so damn flamin"? Why? I'll tell you why and this is just my opinion, it's a deep seated mental issue that happened when they were younger, maybe people picked on them at school but they seem to thrive on much needed negative attention


Yeah, and those Jews too, why do they have to act so Jewy?











(long akward silence to indicate heavy sarcasm)

I think one of the reasons some homosexuals have "issues" is because ever since they were born everything around them has been telling them who they are is wrong. I used the comparison to people that are of a Jewish background, as we don't get to choose our heritage, just as we don't get to choose our sexuality. There are those that would disagree, but most gay folk I've had conversations with about this have said something like, "Do you think I'd choose to be gay if it was a choice?"

But I have to give you credit man, even though you said what you said you also said this:

Quote:
You could be right and that's ok, it's not gonna kill me to learn to live around a couple of gay married people.


The key word here is tolerence. In this past election we had a referendum on gay marriage here, and there were a lot of TV commercials that made me cringe. One was of a bunch of kids, each one saying something like "I have two daddys" or "my mom married my dad, who then becaome my mom" and looking confused, with the ending title "how are you going to explain it to your kids?" Here's the fact- a large number of people are gay. And they're going to be gay whether it's legal or not. Letting them get married does not lessen your straight marriage. I'll even agree- don't call it marriage, call it something else. But what are you afraid of- suddenly going gay? That your kids may go gay? Let me ask you this, if they have these feelings but act straight because they're worried what you (and everyone else) would think of them, do you think they're going to grow up to be happy, healthy adults? Especially if they allow themselves to enter into a straight marriage?

I'll be honest, I don't really care for "flamming" people either, but I do know a couple. And I don't care for grandstanding blowhards like Rush either, whether they're saying things I agree with or not. But I'm tolerant.

Everybody needs to stop being so afraid of each other.
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cjm



Joined: 16 Oct 2006
Posts: 369

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alfonso wrote:
deweydecibel,
Alot of good info. no doubt but a bit of mis-information as well, I am way more than tolerant. My main point was I didn't like homosexuals who flaunt their sexuality, (flamin'),


As a straight individual, I've sometimes wondered if straights aren't also flaunting their sexuality by adhering strictly to the "standard" gender based roles defined by society.

How is it the "tough guy" in cowboy boots, always ready to fight "to defend his honor," (and to make certain nobody thinks he is "queer") and the "ultra feminine" young woman flirting in a short skirt and high heels...any different than the "butch" woman or the "flaming queen?"

All people (and the members of all other species) "flaunt" their sexuality...they advertize their interest, or lack thereof.

Those not in the market, need not worry about the peacock feather display...whether it's on a peacock or another human being. (Unless you're a peacock who lost his tail feathers so that some human being could wear them. They don't pull out easily and the peacock thrashes around something awful.)
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alfonso



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1258
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjm,
I guess you're right, yes we straight people do flaunt our sexuality to the opposite sex and I guess that's why I've never thought about it, it's totally acceptable in my world. I don't know how to answer you're question cause I'm not sure I understand, if a man acts macho but is really gay, then he's living a secret life by still living in the closet. I've met quite a few people who were very unhappy living in the closet and when they came out of the closet everyone noticed a difference in their happiness level. As I mentioned on another post I was a counselor so I basically spent more than 8 hours a day doing nothing but talking to clients both straight and gay so after being involved with their families, group therapy sessions, one on ones etc., you really get to know the person inside and quite honestly the fact that there gay seldom comes into the equation, unless of course the gay person is working on an anger issue long locked within, I learned alot on that job. I learned so much just working with people in their pursuit of changing a destructive behavior pattern. No I didn't make alot of money but I made alot of lifelong friends who I haven't seen for years but my point is what I learned was priceless and alot of the things I learned I still use in my daily life. It was a 12 step program and even though I'm not a 12 stepper I've met and I have known quite a few, I know the philosphy and part of that philosphy is what I utilize in my daily conversations, work ethics etc. later


cjm wrote:
alfonso wrote:
deweydecibel,
Alot of good info. no doubt but a bit of mis-information as well, I am way more than tolerant. My main point was I didn't like homosexuals who flaunt their sexuality, (flamin'),


As a straight individual, I've sometimes wondered if straights aren't also flaunting their sexuality by adhering strictly to the "standard" gender based roles defined by society.

How is it the "tough guy" in cowboy boots, always ready to fight "to defend his honor," (and to make certain nobody thinks he is "queer") and the "ultra feminine" young woman flirting in a short skirt and high heels...any different than the "butch" woman or the "flaming queen?"

All people (and the members of all other species) "flaunt" their sexuality...they advertize their interest, or lack thereof.

Those not in the market, need not worry about the peacock feather display...whether it's on a peacock or another human being. (Unless you're a peacock who lost his tail feathers so that some human being could wear them. They don't pull out easily and the peacock thrashes around something awful.)
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ed norton



Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working in hotels in Philadelphia, I encountered allot of gays. It's weird, I grew up in the homophobe capitol of the USA, well one of them, Huntington Beach Ca. ......The movie "Point Break" was terrible, but the characters depicted the general feel of the area real well..... So anyway,I see so many gay couples now ,that I honestly don't look at them different anymore. many are well off, and tip good for any services ; like fixing their lighting or their AC. Iv'e encountered many gay couples who didn't appear to have any mental problems. The "Vito" episodes of the Sopranos was a good depiction of the stable well balanced gay couples that I have encountered.

My girl has lots of gay friends. We went to a town in Maine , close to The Bush Compound actually; dudes, even the cops are gay. It was so quaint, it's called Ogunquit I think. They have a piano bar where gay men and women sit around and sing Gershwin and Duke Ellington, and do it well. I wished I was gay, it was so cool. We also visited her friends in the Chelsea section of NYC. That's hardcore gay and a little to over the top for most anyone, but the piano bar was slammin. F'n Piano player was like Liberace meets Art Tatum; I sat there quietly all night, while she danced the night away in the disco room.
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hanni



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 660
Location: germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi, good morning, to alfonso and all,
yes some people need to be in prison and i donīt like ware and death, itīs real i can use a gun and a bow but i just do competitions with this, itīs real my boyfrind is a hunter and i hang around with hunters, no one of this guys fight with a gun (we eat the animals) and all guns are registered, itīs all legal, some of this guys are exelent musicans Laughing
peace to all
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alfonso



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1258
Location: Sacramento

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Hanni,
I noticed awhile back you posted a site, I'll post it down at the bottom. Do you have any other links you can post for us, I found that site very interesting with the cultural instruments. I've never come across horns that look like those, unfortunately I could't listen to their music even though they had samples posted, I couldn't listen to them maybe the sound don't come out in English at least not on my computer. I couldn't read the lyrics in English either, maybe it's not translated yet. Anyways if you could post another site that would be most cool, it doesn't have to be jazz. Anyway it's always a joy to read your posts cause I know you're learning English and I always understand what you are saying. Take care and peace to you and your boyfriend, you hunt and bow that's facinating. later

http://www.corvuscorax.de/


hanni wrote:
hi, good morning, to alfonso and all,
yes some people need to be in prison and i donīt like ware and death, itīs real i can use a gun and a bow but i just do competitions with this, itīs real my boyfrind is a hunter and i hang around with hunters, no one of this guys fight with a gun (we eat the animals) and all guns are registered, itīs all legal, some of this guys are exelent musicans Laughing
peace to all
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